[GhostBear]

And prove the Anti's point about hunting being about nothing more than Trophies and not sound management. I'm just playing Devil's advocate here.

we need to find that perfect balance between numbers and Quality

 

[Duckmastor2]

2) Protect button bucks. If eab is kept a hunter should not be rewarded for killing a button. Make it legal to check in but make it NOT count towards your eab or bad requirement.

Take it one step further and make the hunter use one of those Buck tags to check it in. This may tempt someone to the darkside and not register the deer. But true hunters wouldnt be able to live with themselves if they poached a deer. Poacher will do whatever they want despite the rules. They are not hunters.

 

[jkinlan]

3 points or more. if the little ones can grow than you got something.

 

[GhostBear]

I'll tell'ya there's no 100% fool proof way to tell a BB from a doe at 20 yards or more! I shot one this year I was positive was a doe and it turned out to be a button. and before anyone get's on me for it yes I p [no swearing please] on BB's if I can see the knobs

 

[Cat]

This is no time to discuss dancing girls Mike!

Why not?[hihi]

There's another problem with taking deer after the horns fall off. From a distance buck or doe? You think its a doe and it has a big body and short face and it may have been a good buck? So that's another way bucks are being taken and if he hasn't any horns your not sure what he was. 3 bucks with bow now. 2 with shotgun first week then after that 1 buck for a long season. ML 1 buck and in all season unlimited does. How is the Fish and game going to listen to any reason when they are maybe subsidized by the states insurance company's that want all deer dead so they don't have to pay for the animal collisions. How are we going to win up against those odds? [confused]

 

[Cat]

When you go over to the BB there are definitely separate features on him from a doe but it's to late then.
1) They act more regal in there posture.
2) They usually are tallier and have a longer body.
3) Their face is shorter and blockier and not long and narrowed as a doe.
4) The buttons on top of the head are showing as little lumps.
Went I have walked up to one I always knew as soon as I got with in feet of him.

I have had difficulty most times seeing some of the features some times from 10 on out. The lighting in the woods from the canopy sometimes has cast a different light and I didn't see very well. Not one time I walked up to one I wasn't aggravated though. To shoot one is really some times a mistake and some times your thinking of that EAB tag and not looking as close as we should.

 

[Deadbolt]

People on this site need to start realizing what a the difference is between deer of different age groups. I seem some of the pics of 1 1/2 year old six or eight point bucks w/ 10" spreads and want to puke. That is great for a youth or senior hunter but not for someone hunting for years. Besides, a mature doe would probably dress out at a higher weight. Imagine what that 1 1/2 year old buck w/ a 10" spread could have been at 3 1/2 years. Hunters should target more does in areas which have a high population and should restrict themselves to older bucks statewide. Imagine what the results could be...

Read the thread something like "whats a trophy to you?"

What you like to hunt isn't everyones idea so dont nock other peoples animals. Thats very rude and a real jerkoff thing to say. If you dont like the deer people kill leave or shut your mouth. We are not all in it for monster trophies bud! Some of us like hunting for other reasons!

 

[SilverHawk94]

Ok, HOW to improve NJ bucks... This may take me awhile... haha

I think BACS' original suggestion is pretty good![up] Also, matty you're on too.. Less buck tags is definitely the TRUE answer here (along with doing away with EAB& late season anlerless deer hunts)!! I don't think seasons should be shortened bc I personally know how hard it is to get out there if you are busy! Also, I think that since EAB would be gone than maybe something should be done to encourage hunters to shoot DOES! And I mean DOES, ""FEMALE DEER""?? (&BUTTON BUCKS/small spikes shouldn't COUNT).. like maybe every doe counts toward money off that trophy QBT... or maybe off the particular weapon of choice hunting permit??

Also I personally don't think license sales would decline just because hunters would be limited to 4, 3, or even 2bucks/year! Especially with something like an optional extra QBT (Quality Buck Tag)! They are still hunters are they not? I personally don't know anyone that is a true hunter that would give it up becuase he could only shoot a few bucks/year! Thats ridiculous! The one that would give it up is not someone that truly loves hunting... Also they would be missing out on some mighty fine buck hunting![rofl] Also with what STEALTHY BOWMAN said, I AGREE.. Non resident sales would eventually increase too because the quality of bucks would DEFINITELY increase after a few years! Keeping in mind for those who said it used to be better in the Old days, maybe it was... I never saw them. But I say it will get better in a couple years and KEEP on getting better, but with wildlife management changes, you just have to remember it takes a couple years to see results from changes in wildlife management regulations, and the only way to make the buck hunting better now is to limit the amount of bucks taken, particularly button bucks and FOCUS on Quality Deer Management! QDM

Alright, I think I said enough. Hope I didn't offend anyone because I was basically just agreeing with alot of different people. Just parts of everyone's ideas. I never even got on the topic of how there are certain municipalities who are I believe half brained or slow! and DON'T allow hunting and would rather PAY sharpshooter or companies to NET and BOLT deer.. (btw I see this first hand bc i work in a town like this& see the deer problems everyday!) That's where alot of the problems I believe come from... because those areas are very under-hunted and over populated and because of that it gives unrealistic deer herd numbers in surrounding areas causing those to be over hunted and managed... Alright, seriously I'll shut up..

 

[UltraMag77]

AR was one of the worst things that state ever did. The yahoo's are still shooting the young one's they just aren't checking them in. Thus the red in deer harvest despite earn a buck. Look at the numbers. Only thing it's done is create more spikes.

 

[Stealthy_Bowman]

Here we are more than two years later from when this thread was created and the state has still done NOTHING to achieve what most hunters want. Now more than ever before hunters want quality deer management, yet the state only continues to liberalize regulations.

Make this a ONE buck state. Since the state will still want their buck tag revenue add an additional quality buck tag (8 points or better) and charge $84 for it. The $84 cost will offset the current $28x3 cost for bow/shotgun/muzzleloader buck tags. A simple change like this would have a profound effect on the quality of bucks hunters see in NJ.

 

[Deernutz]

I like the sound of that[up]

 

[halfrack]

Although I am a supporter of quality bucks just keep in mind the downside. Most of it will occur on private lands and the costs of those leases will rocket with the size of the bucks!! look at Kansas, ILL, IOWA etc....

 

[croallgame]

I dont mean to offend anyone by suggesting we shorten our seasons, But when we had the butcher shop here at my Taxidermy shop we butchered between 400 to 700 deer a season. And I can tell you guys one thing for sure ,the number of bucks that had already dropped that were shot mistakenly for does from mid January to mid February were VERY high, actually very shocking !!!!!! These deer are back on winter feed patterns by then and just become a lot more susceptible to us at this time .I do see a large number of button bucks brought in that were mistaken for does but the number of LARGE rack dropped bucks brought in was amazing !!!!!!!!!
Thanks Carl

 

[Stealthy_Bowman]

I dont mean to offend anyone by suggesting we shorten our seasons, But when we had the butcher shop here at my Taxidermy shop we butchered between 400 to 700 deer a season. And I can tell you guys one thing for sure ,the number of bucks that had already dropped that were shot mistakenly for does from mid January to mid February were VERY high, actually very shocking !!!!!! These deer are back on winter feed patterns by then and just become a lot more susceptible to us at this time .I do see a large number of button bucks brought in that were mistaken for does but the number of LARGE rack dropped bucks brought in was amazing !!!!!!!!!

Thank you for stating that and I couldn't agree with you more. The Jan. Feb. gun hunting needs to stop for the reasons you mention.

 

[Stealthy_Bowman]

Although I am a supporter of quality bucks just keep in mind the downside. Most of it will occur on private lands and the costs of those leases will rocket with the size of the bucks!! look at Kansas, ILL, IOWA etc....

You can kill trophies on public land in all those states you mention thanks to real QDM. As far as lease costs in NJ, they will only cost what hunters are willing to pay.

 

[halfrack]

You can kill trophies on public land in all those states you mention thanks to real QDM. As far as lease costs in NJ, they will only cost what hunters are willing to pay.

Agreed but read some of the legislative actions going on in those states. Money is driving the management there also and it is causing some serious issues. Again, I support it but we are a different animal in NJ. Public land is pounded MUCH harder than elsewhere.

 

[Stealthy_Bowman]

Money is driving the management there also and it is causing some serious issues.

True, hence the reason for the insane, sky-rocketing, costs of non-resident tags.

Again, I support it but we are a different animal in NJ. Public land is pounded MUCH harder than elsewhere.

Also true and it's all the more reason why real QDM needs to be implemented. Look at KY, not only is it a one buck state, but they also further regulate the types of bucks that can be taken on some public grounds.

The taking of bucks on select public lands is limited to those with at least a 15" spread. It's no surprise that regulations like that produce monster's like Greg Miller's GIANT which scored 246 3/8. That was the biggest buck shot in KY during the 06 season and it was taken on heavily pressured public land. It can be done with the right regulations in place.

NJ has the genetics, it has the incredibly rich soils and it has the habitat. The only thing missing is age class.