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Another mass shooting

10K views 136 replies 42 participants last post by  Winchester12  
#1 ·
Sending prayers to the family's who's kids where taken by another mass shooting.
Republican, Democrats, Independent etc, don't matter, this is very,very sad.
 
#3 · (Edited)
It's sickening. I've been saying this for a long time now, every teacher, aide, staff and faculty members should be trained and armed in every single school and if not the teachers we have PLENTY of sane retired military and police that would love a part time job as an armed security guard! And I don't wanna hear about "taxpayers will bitch" because you'll just have to get over it. The salary of an armed guard in every school is a fraction of the price of an innocent life taken. The problem is not going to go away no matter how much BS gun control is put into affect but there are ways to eliminate the number of killings
 
#14 ·
I cringe, every time. Not just for the victims, and families, but I just know, one more chip is coming off the stone of my freedoms. Its just bad all around.
 
#16 ·
I treasure my guns a lot more than I like most people. You can say there's something terribly wrong with me, Im OK with that. I'm not OK with the viewpoint of blame the gun. Lots more people are killed annually by autos, are you OK with banning cars? doctors? prescription meds?.....
 
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#17 ·
Ive got twin 3yr old boys who attack each other incessantly. Everyone says not to worry, theyll out grow it. Instead, i break them up, and let them know there will be absolute unpleasant consequences if the don't change their behavior. Yeah, solutions begin at three...before the problem even exists. Past a certain age, the problem will become unsolvable. But somehow, in this pc age, teaching old fashioned ethics and moral is now seen as being intolerant.
 
#18 ·
archer 36 it just doesn't stop that is the point you miss. Outlaw AR15's ok they use a semi auto pistol. Outlaw them and then they use a shotgun. Outlaw them they use a rental car to mow people down or a bomb.
The only thing common about these shootings is peoples mental health. We protect people with mental problems at the expense of everybody. Killers will always find a tool. Yes maybe it would have been 6 kids instead of 17 ????
This country needs to address the real issues not the feel good solutions. Mental health NO GUNS!
 
#20 ·
How come a 19 yo high school student got that type of gun? As far as I know the guy is an orphan,
He owned that gun?
.
Guns have been always here, we had guns let's say, 30 years ago, same guns, a lot of guns (or not?). Something like this in the 80s?
Something is happening but we insist in not to pay attention .
 
#22 ·
I don’t think you can blame the AR, NRA, etc. What we have is an individual with a mental health issue who should not have had access to any weapons. Apparently his friend’s family took him in after his adoptive mother died and he took his AR with him which apparently was kept in a safe. My question is why would the friends family allow him to bring his firearm into their home when he lost both of his adoptive parents, was depressed, bullet fragments in this backpack and he was expelled from school for fighting. I know he is 19 but I’d hardly classify many 19 year olds as responsible adult.
 
#23 ·
Some years back I belong to a fish,gun club, one of the members , say his name is "Frank", a very successful businessman, he was a CFO for a huge company on the northeast. I went to his house one day , he showed me his guns, over 125 long guns, 30 plus pistols, etc,. Now me, at that time was 20 yrs old, I only had 2, 1 shotgun, 1 rifle. When I asked why so many , his answer was it's my consitutual right! And you never know who would ever try to invade us! That was many years ago and still scares me. He also had a police record for asulting his wife, and 2 DUIs.
He no longer around, he committed suicide.
Just throwing this out there, good,bad, something to really think about.
 
#33 ·
Said this before....kids today have 0 idea of how to show empathy towards another person, humility, and talk about how their feeling in a logical manner. They aren't taught it, they lack face to face interaction to be able to understand how others feel and how to show others the same. There's no understanding of consequences for actions. They are allowed to sit behind a phone or computer and project to the world how perfect they are. They are so detached from what's real and what's not to them.
 
#45 ·
Excellent point. Disappointment, failure, discipline, morality, delayed gratification, all so very important for development have virtually eradicated been from a child's life. No need for a face to face confrontation when texting is available. The effects that all these electronic devices have on the development of our youth will in time be shown to catastrophic. The developing mind needs downtime, it needs to rest without the affront of constant stimulation. Add to that the vileness that is our current entertainment industry, the endless violence on TV, movies and in video games plus psychotropic medications which are prescribed like candy and you have a social disaster.

When two and three year olds are routinely given phones to amuse themselves or six and seven year olds are allowed, hell indulged to play ultraviolent video games well we reap what we sow. I personally would not vote for any candidate that routinely took money from the entertainment and pharmaceutical industries say as opposed to the NRA, and I happily admit that the NRA is far from perfect.
 
#34 ·
What's common to most mass shooters?


Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Columbine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold’s medical records have never been made available to the public.
Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather’s girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.
Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.
Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.
Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.
Mathew Miller, age 13, hung himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.
Kip Kinkel, age 15, (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.
Luke Woodham, age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.
A boy in Pocatello, ID (Zoloft) in 1998 had a Zoloft-induced seizure that caused an armed stand off at his school.
Michael Carneal (Ritalin), age 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three teenagers were killed, five others were wounded..
A young man in Huntsville, Alabama (Ritalin) went psychotic chopping up his parents with an ax and also killing one sibling and almost murdering another.
Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.
TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.
Rod Mathews, age 14, (Ritalin) beat a classmate to death with a bat.
James Wilson, age 19, (various psychiatric drugs) from Breenwood, South Carolina, took a .22 caliber revolver into an elementary school killing two young girls, and wounding seven other children and two teachers.
Elizabeth Bush, age 13, (Paxil) was responsible for a school shooting in Pennsylvania
Jason Hoffman (Effexor and Celexa) – school shooting in El Cajon, California
Jarred Viktor, age 15, (Paxil), after five days on Paxil he stabbed his grandmother 61 times.
Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who out of the blue killed a woman.
Jeff Franklin (Prozac and Ritalin), Huntsville, AL, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic’s file, then attacked his younger brothers and sister.
Neal Furrow (Prozac) in LA Jewish school shooting reported to have been court-ordered to be on Prozac along with several other medications.
Kevin Rider, age 14, was withdrawing from Prozac when he died from a gunshot wound to his head. Initially it was ruled a suicide, but two years later, the investigation into his death was opened as a possible homicide. The prime suspect, also age 14, had been taking Zoloft and other SSRI antidepressants.
Alex Kim, age 13, hung himself shortly after his Lexapro prescription had been doubled.
Diane Routhier was prescribed Welbutrin for gallstone problems. Six days later, after suffering many adverse effects of the drug, she shot herself.
Billy Willkomm, an accomplished wrestler and a University of Florida student, was prescribed Prozac at the age of 17. His family found him dead of suicide – hanging from a tall ladder at the family’s Gulf Shore Boulevard home in July 2002.
Kara Jaye Anne Fuller-Otter, age 12, was on Paxil when she hung herself from a hook in her closet. Kara’s parents said “…. the damn doctor wouldn’t take her off it and I asked him to when we went in on the second visit. I told him I thought she was having some sort of reaction to Paxil…”)
Gareth Christian, Vancouver, age 18, was on Paxil when he committed suicide in 2002,
(Gareth’s father could not accept his son’s death and killed himself.)
Julie Woodward, age 17, was on Zoloft when she hung herself in her family’s detached garage.
Matthew Miller was 13 when he saw a psychiatrist because he was having difficulty at school. The psychiatrist gave him samples of Zoloft. Seven days later his mother found him dead, hanging by a belt from a laundry hook in his closet.
Kurt Danysh, age 18, and on Prozac, killed his father with a shotgun. He is now behind prison bars, and writes letters, trying to warn the world that SSRI drugs can kill.
Woody ____, age 37, committed suicide while in his 5th week of taking Zoloft. Shortly before his death his physician suggested doubling the dose of the drug. He had seen his physician only for insomnia. He had never been depressed, nor did he have any history of any mental illness symptoms.
A boy from Houston, age 10, shot and killed his father after his Prozac dosage was increased.
Hammad Memon, age 15, shot and killed a fellow middle school student. He had been diagnosed with ADHD and depression and was taking Zoloft and “other drugs for the conditions.”
Matti Saari, a 22-year-old culinary student, shot and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazapine.
Steven Kazmierczak, age 27, shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amounts of Xanax in his system.
Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen, age 18, had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School – then he committed suicide.
Asa **** from Cleveland, age 14, shot and wounded four before taking his own life. Court records show **** was on Trazodone.
Jon Romano, age 16, on medication for depression, fired a shotgun at a teacher in his
New York high school.
 
#35 ·
School shootings are the byproduct of our over educated system. There was a time( and for a great number of years) that student anger towards another was not suppressed. If you had a disagreement with someone it was taken care of after school. The two of you punched the snot out of each other shook hands and eventually became best friends. Not anymore, the over educated morons now send kids home for being a bully where they can stew on their problem. So they gather up a pile of weapons and finish the argument. Ever wonder why there were so many years you never heard of this type of thing? The out come of this will be even worse. Why would you put an officer in a school when you can pass a law restricting firearms from law abiding citizens? The democrats will always treat the symptom and not the cause.
 
#36 ·
Archer36 you do not seem to understand the real problem. The guy who rented the truck and ran people over did have a gun but certainly used the truck as his main weapon. Sick people will always find a way if its not bombs or cars they will find a way.
I am not saying that we have a right to buy any gun we want and do what we want. I am just saying you cannot stop crazy without infringing on disturbed peoples "rights" Why not address the real problem? Did you see the common thread?
Mental disability and medication. You are on Zolof ? goodbye gun rights
 
#37 ·
I have 2 little girls in school and I don't think arming the teachers is the solution. I don't know what it is but with that being said I don't know their teachers well enough and what if one of them has a bad day and forgets to take their meds. I don't know all the facts behind this shooting but there seemed to be a bunch of red flags thrown up that were not addressed. Also, hearing that the shooter was severely bullied in high school for several years so again I question where was the intervention? I am not making any excuses for his actions whatsoever but with everything that has happened over the years it amazes me that these situations are allowed to escalate to where they do. Very sad and I can't even imagine what these parents and families are going through.
 
#41 ·
These nuts shoot up schools because they know they have no threat. They know they have 3-5 minutes (depending on the area) before a cop or someone with a gun will show up and try to stop them. When these shooting happen who does everyone call? The police. Why do we call the police? Because they'll come protect us. The police show up with what? Guns. Why not jump ahead 7 steps and just have someone or two with a gun at the school? People say the retired LEOs or vets would love to do that and honestly I'm sure they would. We have crossing guards in my town who volunteer every day to cross kids across the street. Rain, sleet, snow, 90+ degree weather, these people are out there crossing a bunch of kids that they have no idea who they are. Im sure the few vets or retired LEOs that do that would not mind sitting outside a school with a CC welcoming in the students or just being around the kids. People can B**ch and moan all day about "more gun control" but that's not going to happen and if it does happen, nothing will change. Keep plastering the kids name all over the news and making him a celebrity. Thats what these losers want. This kid should be put down today or tomorrow. No need for him to be in prison for decades. Only gives him more satisfaction
 
#40 ·
archer36 I don't usually agree with your political ( gun) stances but I do understand there are many opinions and you are just as entitled to yours as I am mine. I truly just don't see how taking away the tool solves the problem.
The problem is still mental health and these people may have had to work harder to find a way to kill people but they probably still would find a way. The real problem is mental health and peoples "right" to privacy.
You seem like a good upstanding individual just have different opinions.
 
#111 · (Edited)
Your instinct is spot on. This problem has to be approached from more than one angle but I think arming teachers, janitor's, coaches, etc can be a mistake, depending on their background. The better solution to meeting the threat is armed guards, and that almost has to be retired military or police. Police preferable because for a few decades they have had use of force guidelines and shoot-don't shoot scenarios trained into them. Plus, some have actual real life experiences in shooting situations. That type of training, education and experience is the most valuable resource in what should be the first, and will be the most effective step in preventing these types of mass shootings in the future.

No matter how much you train a teacher or principal or janitor, you cannot replicate the actual feeling of being in a firefight, or approaching an active shooter. Training alone for a few years will not equal the instinct that someone who lived it for 25 or 30 years has when it comes to instinctively recognizing when you need to shoot someone, when you can de-escalate, when you can shoot if you need to (others in the path of the bullet), etc. Police officers train at least twice a year (good departments do it more often) in these things and have it pounded into their heads for their entire career. That doesn't mean they never make mistakes, and that doesn't mean they are all at the same level of proficiency but the chances of a teacher getting tunnel vision at the moment and not seeing the students behind the active shooter is far greater than someone who has trained for it for 25+ years.

Other things we have to look at are the obvious things that happened in this case, which allowed this kid, who clearly should not have been able to own a gun, to have one. That is a mine field of civil rights violations though. What is considered mentally ill "enough" to prevent someone from owning a gun? Depression or PTSD for Vets? Postpartum for women? What if a woman saw someone for postpartum depression after her child was born but 10 years later, wants to buy a handgun for self defense, or a rifle or shotgun for hunting...or how about a crossbow? Who makes that decision?

A gun is really just a tool but if we ban a tool, which tool do we ban? And what's to say one tool is more dangerous than another? If we ban all semi-automatic rifles, and have an armed guard at every school door, and that door controlled by a buzzer and monitored by a camera, and stop all shootings in a school, what is going to stop a shooter from setting up outside the school and shooting people as they leave the school from 100 yards away, with a bolt action 30-06 rifle ? Do we then ban that tool, because the answer in this case, today, was to ban this tool? So we then ban all rifles, and the next kid grabs a pump action shotgun, loads it with buckshot and steps onto a loaded school bus at it's first stop of the afternoon to take kids home. Imagine the carnage, the horror of that scenario. Do we then ban that tool because the answer in this case today, was to ban this tool?

Maybe it's better not to listen too the demands of these adolescent, traumatized kids, and take our time with this.
 
#43 · (Edited)
The schools have to get a more restrictive security system.
While some will say it makes the kids feel like they are going to Prison daily I say BS.
I work in MANY very secure work places, data centers, office buildings and manufacturing buildings.
They all have SUPER security getting into them..
every person is accounted for and exactly what they are doing there.
going through a secure entrance is everything.

having a small hallway that can be remotely locked and unlocked as you enter while security sits safely in another room is a start.
if metal detector goes off doors lock instantly

arming the teachers, having an armed security officer isn't going to help.
They are NEVER going to be trained enough for a bad situation. Just one look at the best trained policeman in the world. in a tense situation many still cant handle it, and that's the best trained we have.

taking guns away isn't going to do anything either, a shotgun in those areas would cause ten times the harm an AR can .
as said evil is evil and they are going to do or use what ever they can to cause harm.

Australia took away all the guns except single shot rifles and shot guns
It lowered their death toll to half of what it was, but it didn't eliminate it.

.
love how its always turned into no one wants to give up something , the other side thinks is being greedy.

would those asking for guns to be taken away give up their cell phones ?, when they cause 10 times more deaths yearly and hurt 100 times more people .
or course not .
 
#47 ·
guns? yeah ... guns.
Take a look at Brazil, Mexico or Central America
A lot of guns, easy access to the black market, you can rent a gun, do the job (robbery) and just return it back after that.
But none, NONE of these guys ( gangster, ranked criminals) go to a mall, movie theatre or school just to shoot people with no motive.
again, 50 or 30 years ago we had the guns in USA, same constitution, same amendment... what is different now?
yeah, this fucking people nowadays make science of every simple thing like "eating hot wings or gender studies" but none, zero, nobody
check on this? I am pretty sure some fellas know what is going on but they don't care... Corporatism?
 
#48 · (Edited)
PARKLAND, Fla. (Reuters) - The Federal Bureau of Investigation on Friday acknowledged that it mishandled a January tip that the 19-year-old man accused of killing 17 people at a Florida high school had guns and the desire to kill.

A person close accused gunman Nikolas Cruz called an FBI tip line on Jan. 5 to warn that he owned guns, had made disturbing social media posts and had the potential to conduct a school shooting, but its protocols were not followed, the FBI said in a statement.

This tip appears unrelated to the previously reported YouTube comment in which a person named Nikolas Cruz said "I'm going to be a professional school shooter." The FBI has acknowledged getting that tip as well but failing to connect it to the accused gunman.

"Under established protocols, the information provided by the caller should have been assessed as a potential threat to life," the FBI said in its statement on Friday. "The information then should have been forwarded to the FBI Miami field office, where appropriate investigative steps would have been taken. We have determined that these protocols were not followed."


http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/breaki...t5R&ocid=ientp


Florida Gov calling for FBI director to step down.
http://www.wesh.com/article/fbi-protocols-were-not-followed-after-tip-called-in-on-florida-shooter/18210238


I really don't think the gun should be blamed...