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Lets face it this thread is moot as proposed the NJ F+G council will not be reducing any of the shotgun seasons running into Jan and Feb. and they will be front loading the early season with additional permit shotgun days along with across the board crossbow inclusion.
Their own biologists recomend an end to all permit shotgun seasons past the 2nd week of Jan and many DMZ's sooner but they won't listen so who are they listening to?

Ask yourself these questions.

What studies have been done and show what the optimum deer density is and should be in each DMZ?

Has that study been seperated between public land and privet land?

Has that study been seperated between lands open to hunting as opposed to land closed off?

What is the optimum deer density for each DMZ and what is that number based on? For example are the considerations agracultural tolerance,suburban tolerance, recreational demand or forest health how did they arrive at these perseptions?

The answer is they do not know the Federation (Thus the F+G Council) is driven by gunclubs and the gunners want as much as they can get for their licence dollar (Who wouldn't?)and when you are the only group those in controll have to listen to you get what you want.
Enjoy the spoils they won't last foreever.
 
Am I the only one that likes being able to hunt from September to the end of January?

No. By F&G own admittance they have reduced the herd by about 17% - 20%.
Half Rack is right, but what was failed to be mentioned that open space is down by at least the same number.

I respect all of you that limit yourself to one or two bucks and a doe a year or what have you, But I personally like killing 5 or 6 bucks a year. Nothing gets a pass, why should it? My family eats or donates every deer my father and I harvest. I like the rules just as they are, If I have to pay for all of these permits and tags than I should be able to kill what ever I want. People have been saying deer numbers are down but i don't see it where I am and until I do I see no reason to change things.

urned to a lesser weapon such as the bow or a Muzzle loader
Todays modern bows and muzzleloaders can not be considered "lesser" than a shotgun. Muzzleloaders today shot better that 30-06's at 100 yards and I for one feel the only difference between a modern compound bow and a cross bow is that with a compound you have to pull it back then pull the trigger, not just pull the trigger.
 
It sounds like a lot of BOW hunters complaining about GUN hunters shooting thier deer. What about GUN hunters complaining about BOW and MUZZLELOADER hunters getting first crack at a giant buck before the 6 day firearm season opens. What about not being able to hunt the rut with a firearm, only a bow. I personally need 2 deer to get through the year. When my kids get older, maybe a few more. When I get what I need, Im done. I dont have any problem with what anyone harvests, or by what means they use to harvest it with. I do have a problem with people either killing more than they can consume with-in a given year, killing just to kill, or killing just for the damb antlers. Thats not a spostsman in my book.
 
I'm following the F&G regs and always do. I have shot some button bucks along the way, but not too many in recent years as I now hunt with a scope. I don't think everyone shoots the sheds on purpose. Some might because they want to get meat and I don't have a problem with that. What's to say they pass up on a shed in hopes that buck produces a good rack for next season and then 2 weeks later that shed is dead on the side of the road? Everyone loses...

All I have a problem with is when people don't follow the laws.
 
I also agree that any buck is a buck and if you want to shoot a button your buck tag goes on it same as the shed!

The only reason the seasons are like this is to shoot deer perioud. Maybe the seasons need to be reevaluated from a logical management possition. Maybe zones need to be closed in certain areas then hunters would be forced to hunt other zones if they still wanted to shoot a deer when its still open. That would sell more permits maybe as well.

The babies in some of these does kills 2 to 3 deer at a time when harvested and that is what the state wants.
 
To begin with, I am not as experienced as most of you are, but that does not make me any less ethical, determined or concerned about any of the deer I shoot or how I go about harvesting my deer.

I would like to say that I walk the middle ground and now try to explain that comment. I hunt three different properties, and believe me, I spend enough time in the woods to know the herds of those properties very well. In spot one (State land), you are darn lucky to get anything, and although I do see deer quite often there, it's a hard kill, and you've earned anything you take off of that land. Some jerk is now baiting 10 yards away from the bait I have been maintaing since September, not to mention having had my equipment stolen twice, AND somebody shot a deer from IN MY STAND. I have however, let small bucks pass there this year. In spot two (Club property), you are hunting much wiser and educated deer that have been hunted hard and driven on a regular basis by other hunters. This property is loaded with deer and I frequently see herds of 6 or more, but it's a much harder hunt. I also gave a regular spike a season pass on this property during gun season and missed a really nice buck with the bow.(Shot a tree) Spot three (Private property) houses two really nice bucks along with several other smaller ones, a three legged doe with her two fawns, and then many passer throughs, but generally large does with their fawns. In an effort to harvest one of the larger bucks, I hunted this property hard this year, saw deer at just about EVERY sit, but let EVERYTHING pass for several weeks, but no had no luck with the bucks there.

So, I am what I would call a meat hunter who still has concern for the growth and potential of the bucks on the properties that I hunt, but I am NOT a Trophy Hunter. I get laid off every year in January and February and do look forward to being able to spend as much time in the woods during that time as I do, but believe me, I do not shoot everything that I see. It makes no difference to me if I shoot a doe in Sept who will be pregnant in January or shoot that same doe in January when she is pregnant, as either way, ultimately, three deer will have been removed from next years herd. As far as seeing the babies in her belly goes, heck, for the longest time, I would bring them home and show them to my children and turn it into a learning experience, and if I could have found a recipe on line I would have turned it into an eating experience as well. We eat veal, don't we? Well, personally, I don't, but same idea, isn't it?

As far as shooting the shed buck goes, it wasn't intentional and it was an honest mistake, but it was legal, and is it going to keep me from hunting in January and February? Nope it's not. I'll certainlly try to be more careful in my identification, as it's something I would prefer not to do, but I only harvested one buck this year, a small 5 point, so it was a mistake, but not an OH MY GOD GO CRAWL UNDER A ROCK one. And another thing, I could very easily not have posted anything at all and just put this one in my freezer, but I choose to share my experiences with everythone here, the good, the bad, the ugly, and it was a fantastic shot too, so I make no apologies for shooting the shed buck. It's a part of hunting, and he's a part of my diet. I follow the rules, all of them. I don't shoot every deer that walks in front of me, I never will. I exercised great restraint this year in not shooting on many occasions as I won't take what I believe to be poor shots, long shots or questionable ones. Actually, walking in yesterday, I could have shot a deer from on the ground at 40 yards, but I knew that 300 to 400 yards beyond the woods were houses, and what if, just what if I missed and my bullet were not stopped by all of the trees in the woods? So, I did not shoot. Instead, I waited, made a little noise, and waited again for the deer to leave and then continued to my stand. I truely believe that I am making the right decisions and for the right reasons, but if the law says that I can hunt in January and into February, I will do so.
 
First, About the long gun seasons there was a time not too long ago when it was a hard fought battle to allow winter bowseason to run as long as MLK day in Mid Jan for fear that the bowhunters would shoot “All the bucks”.
It seems that’s not anything to worry about now that guns seasons run well into February why did THAT change?
OBTW we now shoot about half of the bucks during 6 day as we did back than.
We were told the herd needed to be cut back and it has been in the places that gunners have access to the deer.
In my area many places that had tons of deer you will not even see a track in 3 day old snow yet the gun season (Permit shotgun) a season that was installed as a management tool goes on why?

It also seems that shooting everything that moves and feeling you have a right to do so is our new “Tradition” I don’t get it.
Before the F+G council allowed most areas in the northern 2/3 of the state to be managed as if the whole thing was covered under a depredation permit the shotgun season consisted of 6 day bucks and a doe day a day on which regularly they killed 7 or 8K head of does one day! If one wanted more time a field they turned to a lesser weapon such as the bow or a Muzzle loader now that philosophy seems to have been kicked under the bus and replaced by the Brown N Down run em and gun em twice a week for 4 months attitude.
I guess that’s ok for those with no eye to how it will affect things down the road but for the rest of us we know that is not a self sustaining plan.

As for shooting shed heads what’s the point?
Is that deer management? Don’t tell me you hate to see big bucks the only way you get to see and shoot an 8 pointer is by not shooting him when he is smaller and not allowing the other guy to do so either.
Who do you know that says “I shot a shed head YEAH come on over and look at him!!!”?
Those of us who have hunted longer than 15 years remember seeing MANY bucks during the bowseason and EVERYONE being excited about 6 day and even the doe season I also remember and for the most part morn the loss of the winter bowseason a very beautiful time with natural deer movement to capitalize on.
These long gunseasons were installed as temporary measures a thing that needed to be done like surgery now we continue to have them much like going in for surgery weather its needed or not.
When do we arrive at the point when nothing is left to cut out?
Why have so many who hunt these days have little to no connection to a conservation ethic?
Can you list the other states on the Atlantic seaboard that allow modern firearms seasons to run this long?
100 percent agree this state is completley backwords
 
Discussion starter · #30 ·
My question for those opposed to the long gun seasons and for those opposed to killing shed bucks.... why?

we know that is not a self sustaining plan.
Those of us who have hunted longer than 15 years remember seeing MANY bucks during the bowseason and EVERYONE being excited about 6 day and even the doe season I also remember and for the most part morn the loss of the winter bowseason a very beautiful time with natural deer movement to capitalize on.
These long gunseasons were installed as temporary measures a thing that needed to be done like surgery now we continue to have them much like going in for surgery weather its needed or not.
When do we arrive at the point when nothing is left to cut out?
Jakesbeard - thank you. I was looking for at least 1 answer as to why some people are opposed to the long gun seasons or to shooting shed bucks. [up] While my opionion is that the long seasons are beneficial in reducing the deer population, it is good to challenge that opinion with another viewpoint that is based on logic and reason (rather than, "everyone else has a shorter season... so we should too").
 
BestNJBD,
Thanks I did take the time to give a square answer time I took away from other things.

Please note the majority missed the point and was conserned with bolstering THIR point of view and what they think THEY want in the short run and the majority will rule in fact the minority literaly has NO VOICE.
We are headed for having a general season with areas with easy accsess few deer in the extreem and the MAJORITY can't or won't see it for fear the other guy may get more than him or her.
 
property is loaded with deer and I frequently see herds of 6 or more, but it's a much harder hunt.
Robin,
I enjoy your posts and think you hunt for all the right reasons but since I know you hunt in dmz's 7,8,12 and probably started hunting in less than the last 10 years you have no idea how sad that statement is.
 
I think some people see a problem with the long season with the deer numbers they are seeing. I know I am seeing less deer every year , nothing like I was seeing even 8 years ago.

I could careless if a hunter shoots a buck that shed. If that deer makes the hunter happy then so be it. I do have a problem with hunters saying I do not hunt for anters I hunt for meat then just shoot the first deer they see weather it be a shed buck or a doe. With a god pair of binos you should be able to tell this time of the year if it shed or not. If you only meat hunt shoot a doe and leave the buck for someone that does "antler hunt " I love reading I am a meat hunter period. If you put a 130 class 10 pointer and a good sized doe in front of them what is the "meat" hunter going to try and take ? You guessed it the 10 pointer. Why ? Cause when it does come down to it the antlers do matter.

I know some are going to say it is not fair to "wait" for a doe if you are a meat hunter. Lets get real here how long do you have to wait to see a doe. I know I see a lot more does then I do bucks.

These are just my views and not in anyway knocking someone for shooting a shed buck. If that deer makes you happy then I am happy for you. Yes even you Vin with your buttons [hihi]
 
If that deer makes you happy then I am happy for you.
I know some are going to say it is not fair to "wait" for a doe if you are a meat hunter. Lets get real here how long do you have to wait to see a doe. I know I see a lot more does then I do bucks
If you put a 130 class 10 pointer and a good sized doe in front of them what is the "meat" hunter going to try and take ? You guessed it the 10 pointer. Why ? Cause when it does come down to it the antlers do matter.
Amen[up] i don't care what people shoot but it would be awesome if some could show a little restraint. Everyone likes to see and shoot big bucks.
 
If you put a 130 class 10 pointer and a good sized doe in front of them what is the "meat" hunter going to try and take ? You guessed it the 10 pointer. Why ? Cause when it does come down to it the antlers do matter.
I wont lie. I would harvest the 10 pointer over the doe as well and display it proudly on my wall. I like antlers as mush as the next person. That isnt my issue with the whole topic though. My issue would be people who hunt "strictly for the antlers" with no intention consuming the animal.
 
The state just wants to wipe out the deer. Why do you think you can hunt so long. There is no reason for unlimited kills. Years ago we could kill up to 12 deer a year with all licenses and permits. Two per license. How many of us actually filled them all. How many hunters filled both tags with good bucks. It just seems it is not just the state but hunters as well. Who needs to kill lets say a deer a month. The deer numbers are down. I can't see the need for one hunter to shoot 4 or more deer, except for the need to kill or prove to someone oh look how many deer I shot.
 
I ended up short on the deer take this season, I got only two. I know I'll run out of venison by mid-July the latest. I useually need to take 4 deer a season at least to have meat till the next season rolls around. I won't buy beef or pork (exept bacon) if I can help it.
 
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