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Missing not a part of archery anymore?

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#81 ·
Cat your being a total instigator and being insulting and or calling people names for the sake of WHAT [confused]

As a bow hunter who is true to his passions for the sport of archery and bow hunting, I have every right to call out the use of a gun like weapon being intrusive into bow season that is So easy to use a quadriplegic can shoot it and hit bulls eyes out to 50 yards with no archery skills required. Which is why it is and has always been the perfect choice for DISABLED HUNTERS. If you can't honestly see that this weapon holds a HUGE advantage over a trad or compound BOW then you are clearly either blind or just refusing to see it as it really is [sad]
Which by the way this state has always seen and took a hard line on them for the reality of there easy use and limited there use to the disable because of same.

And not to mention the total evidentially necessity for crossbow hunters to be properly trained in how to handle and hunt safely with these weapons.

HONESTLY Cat, What part of that is a the “problem” you seem to have, and need to stick your totally unnecessary insulting two cents in for.
 
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#82 ·
The state should try to sell the idea of crossbows for the general population as a substitute for the gun seasons. For example, I can't legally own a gun but would love to go out during permit shotgun or ML seasons. Crossbow would be a prime choice, not only for someone in my situation, but for people who would rather shoot a bow than a gun. This is not a bow anyway you look at it, it is a gun. Places that do not allow gun hunting but do allow bow hunting, places like allaire, how are crossbows going to be handled? It really is a big mistake to make these weapons common place from september through february.
 
#83 ·
OK, I have a question and it may have already been asked and I may have missed it, but here goes. From what I have heard, cross bows are very accurate at much farther distances, so . . . will we be wearing hunter orange while cross bows are in the woods so that we don't get mistaken for deer? This is NOT meant to start an arguement among pro and con cross bow people, but I truely do not know the distance for accuracy on a cross bow and was wondering, that's all?
 
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#84 ·
cross bows are very accurate at much farther distances, so . . . will we be wearing hunter orange while cross bows are in the woods so that we don't get mistaken for deer?
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Crossbows are more accurate at longer distance because they are easier to shoot...it's more a function of ease of shooting than the weapons capability. Compound arrows can travel just about as far, but it's nearly impossible to shoot 3 or 4 inch groups at 75 yards with a compound. With a crossbow, 4 inch groups can be done 15 minutes after taking it out of the box( I just wintessed that a few weeks ago in Ohio). This is because they are shoulder fired, can be bench rested, have scopes...just like guns. They are not hand-held, hand-drawn.

Accuracy with a bow is totally dependent on the shooters function, not so with a crossbow...it's locked and loaded, mounted on a stock, telescopic sights, and can be bench rested to shoot accurately at long distances.

The range is comparable to a compound, and only marginally better with a crossbow. The big difference is that while an arrow from a compound can kill a deer at 75 yards, very few people, if anyone, could actually hit a deer at 75 yards with a bow. With the new crossbows, those bolts will zip through a deer at 75 yards, and just about anyone can do it within 15 to 20 minutes of opening the box...just like a gun. ;)

That being said, crossbow bolts my fly faster and have alot more KE, but they still cannot bust through brush. The hunter will still need to have a clear lane to the target. It only poses a threat when fired from the ground, and it's really not much more of a threat than shooting a bow from the ground. We may end up having to wear hunter orange for bow hunting while gun season are in as well, but that is because the woods are already over-crowded, not because of crossbows.

The danger in not having a safety course is that crossbows require gun-handling safety procedures, not safe bow handling procedures. There are special unloading steps to follow, there are things you have to do with corssbows that you do not do with bows. If an 11 or 12 year old kid who passed his bow test last year, doesn't want to, or have the time to practice, gets his parents to buy him a crossbow, he can just go use it without an instruction on safety or proper use.

Now, we would all hope that the parents would be responsible enough to ensure the youth hunter does things right, but we should all know the difference between hoping all parents are responsible, and the sad reality of how many actually are responsible.

In the end, it comes down to the fact that the State has permitted (or will be permitting) this to happen. They have decided that this hunter doesn't need to know anything different about crossbows than he/she needs to know about a bow to take it afield, and some parents will think that is good enough.
The Division may even be liable if some tradegy does happen. Think about it this way...if some 17 year old kid just got his license, then the next year wanted to drive a motorcyle, and the state just gave him a license without testing or giving the saefty course, do you think they could be liable for giving that license in the even of an accident?

Lawyers would be lining up for that case, don't ya think?
 
#85 ·
Bow and muzzleloader seasons were intended to be primitive seasons for primitive weapons. I personally do my best to keep it that way but hey that's just me, never looked for an easier way out if my abilities allowed me to do it the primitive way and succeed, same goes for upland and small game. It's never about the kill but the journey taken.

If our ancestors relied on these primitive weapons and learned how to adjust them and to them for disabilities and old eyes for sheer survival I can do the same for sport. Part of the journey is living the way they did if just for a little bit.

That being said I believe a crossbow would be better described if it were called a boltgun. It is more gun than bow and does not belong in bow season.

FYI...Crossbows were developed long ago as a weapon of war becasue it required much less skill if any at all to kill the enemy than a bow. It can be given to any man and child at the time with no more training than how to cock, load and squeeze the trigger.
 
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#87 ·
The danger in not having a safety course is that crossbows require gun-handling safety procedures, not safe bow handling procedures. There are special unloading steps to follow, there are things you have to do with corssbows that you do not do with bows. If an 11 or 12 year old kid who passed his bow test last year, doesn't want to, or have the time to practice, gets his parents to buy him a crossbow, he can just go use it without an instruction on safety or proper use
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certainly paul at this junction of your career you wouldnt want to jeapordize the welfare of children will you[confused]
 
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#88 ·
Paul so you are saying a 10 year old should be allowed to just go out and use a cross bow with no official training with the weapon. Other than he passed his hunter ed test with a 35lb bow and put 3 out of 5 arrows in a pie plate. Now he can use a weapon that has up to over 200lb pull?
So you as the president of the UXBNJ think is is a responsible action on the divisions part? Even one accident is one to many considering bowhunting has been the safest form of hunting in NJ for the last 40+ years.
 
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#90 ·
It is amazing and just unbelievable how much misconception, misnomers and fear is still being thrown "out there" regarding this particular type of bow. Everything has been discussed and re-discussed so many, many times in the crossbow threads for well over 2 years!! I will not comment any further, except to say, the safety issues have been dealt with, effective hunting distances should be "no more than" 30 yds.
 
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#91 ·
I am not spreading fear nor saying they cannot be an effective management tool. But just like with muzzleloaders they are diffent than a conventioanl bow. They can be pre drawn and loaded, then they have to be unloaded and let down or fired somehow.
I don't think it is to much to ask for a simple cross bow curiculum to be inserted into the archery part of teh hunters ed test. The first year Maryland allowed them a 12 year old boy shot himself in the chest and died because he was pulling the cross bow into the stand with the bolt in it. Something like that can be prevented with a little hunter ed. Not too much to ask and it is the responsible thing to do.
 
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#92 ·
It has everything to do with making the hunt easier for the hunter.
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Don't think so is my opinion. The tool is heavier than our reg. bows and certainly than a stick. Its bulky in a tree to hold isn't it and you still have to line up the scope on the deer like you do your sites and peep most of you shoot.

How is it really easier all hog wash again.

There are draw backs I see is why I haven't gotten one yet. Until I am forced into one I really don't see my self getting one yet. That still don't mean I haven't thought of trying one in the past several years.

Like I said Macho man stands. I get more out of using no sites, so isn't that Macho to a degree?

The user still has to find a deer and set up on the deer so they have to be lucky or have some hunting skills to get them in the area of deer don't they?

Oh but wait isn't the x-bow an assasin tool for deer well you can drive up to a deer hang the x out the window scope him and shoot him? Correct????

Thats what some guys are saying it's a poachers tool?

Can't you just satisfy yourselves with what you want to shoot and not worry about this tool because really what does it hurt to allow.

If it is true and more accurate then that's a plus as I see it? If it cuts into the reg. Archery season then maybe there could be a complaint but really what is the srgument or even discussion about them[smirk]

I'd like to bring up a name that really started all this negativity but out of respect to him I won't, but most of you know who I refer to that I voiced my opinion it was wrong to write an article and make a stance against them when it wasn't the full membership that was against them. We don't have to really go there again but what is the real issue because that's what needs to be addressed maybe and understood.[smirk]
 
#93 ·
I guess we shouldnt be allowed to use inline muzzleloaders or scoped shotguns either?
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Shotguns OK for the 6 day and permit shotgun but if I were making the rules and I assume your posting in response to mine, inline ok but no scope, pellets or sabots. I like the way Pennsy and some other states do it but that is just me and if it's legal go for it. I thought we lived in a free country and it was ok to voice opinions.:D

Maybe just rocks home made spears and clubs?
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No offense but that is just plain ignorant.[eyeroll]
 
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#94 ·
Sorry, I gotta add my view to this since I did state:
If a crossbow wasn't such an easier weapon to use, do you think they would have ever offered it to the disabled like myself?
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Hence the phrase "X-bows...so easy a quadriplegic can do it."

My public apology to all...I meant no disrespect to any disabled/quadriplegic person using a crossbow nor the many disabled/quadriplegics who use a compound with a "draw-loc" device with great success.

"Where there is a wheel, there is a way."
 
#95 ·
To any disabled hunter using a cross bow or draw lock. This has never been about you. In fact we wanted it to be easier for someone with a legitimate disability to obtain a cross bow permit. Also I never had a problem with a person 55 and over being able to use a cross bow.
 
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#96 ·
No offense but that is just plain ignorant
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No Offense but the point I'm trying to make is what ever makes the kill more efficient and less likely to wound is what's best for the animal and the sport.

The hunt should be about scouting, choosing a stand, out witting an animal, not the weapon you choose to kill it.

Makes no difference to me if you shoot your deer with a crossbow, traditional compound shotgun rifle whatever as long as your proficient and safe. You impress me by outsmarting those old bucks!!
 
#97 ·
No Offense but the point I'm trying to make is what ever makes the kill more efficient and less likely to wound is what's best for the animal and the sport.
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So then, why not just allow guns for the entire fall? Using your line of thought, there is no reason to have a bow only season.

In my view, the whole problem is exactly that view...people on the Fish and Game Council do not care for bow hunters or a bow only season. There is no voice at the Divsion or on the Fish and Game Council for bowhunters, none. If you don't see that as a problem, in my opinion, YOU are part of the problem. You can take comfort in knowing that there are alot of people that feel there should be no bow season too, you're not alone. That is why bowhunting is doomed in NJ...no support for it on the Council or at the Division.

That is what this struggle is really about...preserving a bow season that has been targeted for extermination by those who make the rules.
 
#98 ·
I love a few of the hipocrates on this board...
Can't pattern xbow info off other states because they are not like New Jersey.
but...
The state is suspose to pattern Deer Management off every other state because they (other states) know how to grow deer.

[confused][confused]
 
#99 ·
I love a few of the hipocrates on this board...
Can't pattern xbow info off other states because they are not like New Jersey.
but...
The state is suspose to pattern Deer Management off every other state because they (other states) know how to grow deer.
Click to expand...
If you are talking about my comments regarding Ohio, you might want to go back and read it again. I said if they want to be like Ohio with the crossbow thing, then lets be like Ohio with their other regs too. I was not saying let's take one but not the other...the wizards on the Fish and Game Council and at the Divison are doing that. They seem to be the hypocrits you are talking about.

By the way, how's the shoulder?
 
#100 ·
Where is the hypocrasy? Ohio allows 1 buck and 6 antlerless. So x bows did not have an impact because it went from 80% conventional bow users and 20% x bow users(disabled) to about 60% x bow users and 40% conventional bow users. The hunter #s did not increase so there fore the harvest did not increase very much.
Now take NJ. The state allows 6 bucks to be killed and unlimited antlerless in most zones. The state figures that they will gain 15,000 more hunters in bow season. First you are putting that many more hunters in an already overcrowded pubilc hunting woods. Couple that with a very liberal bag limit and you could have a huge negative impact on the deer herd. Now if the division brought them in with say 55 and over, then monitored the harvest data, if there was a big increase in the kill from that user group they adjust the bag limits. They could then bring them in for other hunters without the chance of a negative impact.
Yes NJ should look at other states because their biologists do what is right for wildlife management, not what is right for the pocketbooks of polititians.
You can only go if it's brown it's down for so long before the well dries up and people give up. If that happens they will no longer have any hair brain scemes to make $$ with.
Call me what you will but my motives are about quality hunting in this state for all hunters and for the good of the wildlife in this state. PERIOD!
 
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