Did anyone else get the crossbow survey in the mail from the njdfw? It said that a number of hunters were randomly chosen for it. I filled out and returned it this afternoon...
Crossbow Survey (Scans Added)
ryanH
61 - 80 of 110 Posts
JB I'm VERY well aware of the origin of the bills, JUST as I'm VERY much aware when they "took off" being promised "thousands of hunters will support them" ALL because you guys don't want to share...AND don't care about anyone else besides what YOU want..
NOT to mention that YOU and your "little group" VOWED to join AR groups And ANTI HUNTERS over the crossbow issue TRY as you may there is NO way to justify that TO ME......
The FACT is jakesbeard YOU stated several times that you would get into bed with OUR enemies over crossbows KNOWING what another fellow hunter is archery hunting with "over there" doesn't can't and will NOT affect you in any way!!
I wasn't trying to USE anything YOU made a comment on me taking so long to respond I simply explained why I took so long. YOUR trying to spin it into anything else is "poor form" even for you....
Also it's NOT "ME" who IS "obsessed" with crossbows, I AM obsessed with freedoms and the RIGHT to choose for ones self,NOT to be dictated to by "know it alls" like yourself!
YOU are "obsessed" with DICTATING to others (or TRYING to do so) to the point of vowing on this very forum of supporting OUR enemies ONLY because of crossbows, NOT hard to see who are the obsessed ones here....
NOT to mention that YOU and your "little group" VOWED to join AR groups And ANTI HUNTERS over the crossbow issue TRY as you may there is NO way to justify that TO ME......
The FACT is jakesbeard YOU stated several times that you would get into bed with OUR enemies over crossbows KNOWING what another fellow hunter is archery hunting with "over there" doesn't can't and will NOT affect you in any way!!
NOW you've crossed the line jb you can feel free to KISS MY A$$
I wasn't trying to USE anything YOU made a comment on me taking so long to respond I simply explained why I took so long. YOUR trying to spin it into anything else is "poor form" even for you....
Also it's NOT "ME" who IS "obsessed" with crossbows, I AM obsessed with freedoms and the RIGHT to choose for ones self,NOT to be dictated to by "know it alls" like yourself!
YOU are "obsessed" with DICTATING to others (or TRYING to do so) to the point of vowing on this very forum of supporting OUR enemies ONLY because of crossbows, NOT hard to see who are the obsessed ones here....
WE can ONLY HOPE .....
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16,894 Posts
JB, I have said it several times, before, and here you have proved it, once AGAIN!! You just keep sinking lower, don't you? I would have imagined that you had already hit "rock bottom" by now, but I guess I was wrong, as you continue in this direction. I will "never" be amazed as to how "low" you will go!! [mad][mad][down][down][down]
LOL, yep this group (that oppose crossbow INCLUSION) seem to have serious problems in answering legitimate questions.....
Along with comprehending facts and data. Not to mention other's choices and their right to make up their own minds..and not to be dictated to...but refuse for some "odd reason" to explain anything to anyone....or to even TRY to defend their stance against others....
Still the survey will have the F&G Council looking toward including them right along with compounds (as they should be)....it's a REAL shame they still don't understand the many good reasons for doing exactly that.....
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3,400 Posts
Wow you are a good saleman.
...got that right
I'm totally cool with x-guns, as soon as they can be "hand held & hand drawn in the presence of game"...Oh wait...the DF&W definition of a "BOW"...
I have to admit, I can't wait to see the lines of orange lined up driving deer in early September!!!
All due respect,
"guns" have firing pins, use powder to propell a projectile(s).....crossBOWS use bent limbs and a string to propel an arrow with a broad head attached (what does THAT sound exactly like?)
"Selling" implies some $$$ gain....of which there is NONE......the "gain" comes for MY fellow archery hunters being allowed to CHOOSE for themselves and NOT have selfish minded dictators (or would be dictators in this case as I have NO doubt it WILL happen soon) deciding for others.....
Check Webster and a host of encyclopedias and you'll see the CORRECT definition......and don't give us the "hand drawn and held in the presence of game"....since when IS GAME 30' or more "up a tree" OR in a scent control ground blind??? (the majority of bow hunters use one or both to AVOID being detected while drawing)
I've deer hunted a long time in a few states and NEVER had one up a tree or in a doghouse blind!
Also that "thing" on the end of a crossbow IS a bow, either recurve or compound.......easy to tell, when you look at it
As for the DF&W they wrote it once and they can re-write it correctly at any time, I suspect they will sooner rather than later.....
.... uses mechanical aid (read advantage) to HOLD the bow at full draw.......just as a crossbow does........period!
The ONLY "point" is whether it's 10% or 0% NOT enough to concern ANYONE much less those who will NOT use crossbows anyway! A compound with MORE than 90% let off is 100% legal......so there is NO good reason to not include crossbows, there is NO data to support that stance, plenty that supports choice and inclusion in OUR sport which needs new blood for OUR future's sake....and that is the unvarnished truth!
Maybe YOU can tell us Bacs,(no one else can seem to answer such a simple question)
WHY do you care what archery weapon another fellow archery hunter chooses to hunt with during an open to the public archery season?
HOW "exactly" is another fellow hunter's CHOICE of a crossbow "over there" going to harm YOUR hunt in any way, any more than the same hunter would with a much later compound bow?
Never seen one......have you???
"guns" have firing pins, use powder to propell a projectile(s).....crossBOWS use bent limbs and a string to propel an arrow with a broad head attached (what does THAT sound exactly like?)
I "would" thank you, but WHAT "exactly" am I "selling" other than choice? HOW "exactly" would I make the first penny? ( I won't and can't)
"Selling" implies some $$$ gain....of which there is NONE......the "gain" comes for MY fellow archery hunters being allowed to CHOOSE for themselves and NOT have selfish minded dictators (or would be dictators in this case as I have NO doubt it WILL happen soon) deciding for others.....
OK now on this one I need some "help", WHY would orange be required for an ARCHERY weapon? It's NOT.....period
NOT the "first time" a politician got a definition wrong......NOT by far! I remember a president not too long ago who wonder what "is" is......
Check Webster and a host of encyclopedias and you'll see the CORRECT definition......and don't give us the "hand drawn and held in the presence of game"....since when IS GAME 30' or more "up a tree" OR in a scent control ground blind??? (the majority of bow hunters use one or both to AVOID being detected while drawing)
I've deer hunted a long time in a few states and NEVER had one up a tree or in a doghouse blind!
Also that "thing" on the end of a crossbow IS a bow, either recurve or compound.......easy to tell, when you look at it
As for the DF&W they wrote it once and they can re-write it correctly at any time, I suspect they will sooner rather than later.....
Again easy enough to correct......btw a COMPOUND BOW.....
.... uses mechanical aid (read advantage) to HOLD the bow at full draw.......just as a crossbow does........period!
The ONLY "point" is whether it's 10% or 0% NOT enough to concern ANYONE much less those who will NOT use crossbows anyway! A compound with MORE than 90% let off is 100% legal......so there is NO good reason to not include crossbows, there is NO data to support that stance, plenty that supports choice and inclusion in OUR sport which needs new blood for OUR future's sake....and that is the unvarnished truth!
Maybe YOU can tell us Bacs,(no one else can seem to answer such a simple question)
WHY do you care what archery weapon another fellow archery hunter chooses to hunt with during an open to the public archery season?
HOW "exactly" is another fellow hunter's CHOICE of a crossbow "over there" going to harm YOUR hunt in any way, any more than the same hunter would with a much later compound bow?
And while we're "at it", please explain to us all, what is SO wrong with those of us who support other's choices standing up for that?
Is it not good when hunters FIGHT for their rights?
I myself have NEVER used a crossbow, EVER, still I don't see them as the "evil" some try to make them out to be. I see them as ONE more choice(among several) that will help our sport just as compounds did and have ......
You see, I remember when the "bow hunters" who voiced ANY opinion, were VERY much against allowing "training wheels" (compound bows) into the season (their season they said)......
Well decades later guess what? Some 90%+ USE and hunt with them! THAT means a stronger voice, NO way would WE have the vast number of archery hunters had compounds not been included......yet some "short sighted individuals" wanted them excluded......WE need to learn from such mistakes IMO
Is it not good when hunters FIGHT for their rights?
I myself have NEVER used a crossbow, EVER, still I don't see them as the "evil" some try to make them out to be. I see them as ONE more choice(among several) that will help our sport just as compounds did and have ......
You see, I remember when the "bow hunters" who voiced ANY opinion, were VERY much against allowing "training wheels" (compound bows) into the season (their season they said)......
Well decades later guess what? Some 90%+ USE and hunt with them! THAT means a stronger voice, NO way would WE have the vast number of archery hunters had compounds not been included......yet some "short sighted individuals" wanted them excluded......WE need to learn from such mistakes IMO
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3,400 Posts
Sure I have. They have a stock, forearm, trigger guard, trigger, and a safety...many have telescopic sights
A gun.
Ok, so you're an advocate for x-guns, fine. But why do you bash advocates from a state bowhunting organization for doing the same thing that you are? Sounds a little hypocrtical.
Yet, you want to make that choice for me; and I'm the @$$hole if I stand up and say "No, I don't agree with you"???
Why? Because its the LEGAL definition of what constitutes archery equipment in NJ, and it doesn't fit YOUR agenda???
Doesn't change the fact that I draw my bow in the presence of game does it? Let's see you do that with an x-gun.
Have INSIDERS' info do ya...
Really? You're going to compare a release aid to a latching system that LOCKS an x-gun in a position ready to fire, that has a safety so that the x-gun cannot be discharged??? WOW! Next time I'm at the truck getting ready to head to my stand 30' up the tree I'll have to break out my "release aid" and cock and lock my compound at full draw before I head to the stand! Damn Ace, I didn't know that I could do all that with a "release aid"; thanks!
There will be VERY little "new blood" and you know that; all there really will be is a demographic shift of firearm hunters purchasing x-gun permits. The mechanisim for firearms hunters wanting to hunt in bowseasons is already there, they just need to become profficent with a legal bow; you yourself said that it was easy with a compound didn't you?
Becasue I'm an advocate for a state bowhunting organization; just like you are an x-gun advocate.
Point being that they are not a "fellow archery hunter", if they were they'd be using a bow as legally defined by DF&W; and again, even you have said that compounds are "easy" to master.
So, what you're saying is that I'm short-sighted because I won't cowtow to YOUR OPINION that x-guns are archery equipment and should be allowed in bow seasons?
In another thread you made a comment about Comptions not recognizing the compound...Well, I'll ask you this; do they recognize the x-gun?
Sorry NO such thing as a crossgun....IF you can show me a link to one for sale BY A DEALER in "crossguns" though I'd LOVE to see that!
GUNS have a firing pin and barrel, to name only a couple things "missing" from crossbows found on EVERY firearm/gun......also some other bows have telescopic sights (and that means nothing as I've seen several miss with scopes on ml, shotguns, rifles pistols, scopes do NOT insure anything and are one more thing that can "go wrong" and at the worst possible moment)
T0 which YOU replied
YOU have some "funny guns" NO doubt!
All mine (and I have a few including a half dozen high powered rifles fwiw) Have barrels, firing pins and a host of other things NOT found on crossbows and NONE of them use bent limbs and a string to propel a broad head tipped arrow, ALL my BOWS do exactly that, and I am certain everyone else's bows do too!
I have to admit, I'm VERY disappointed! I was certain you'd do much better than THAT!!
Simple because they ARE NOT doing anything close to similar.......YOU guys are fighting your own kind OVER their CHOICE of an archery weapon (NOT my opinion either FACT)...NOT ONE good reason has EVER been posted to exclude other fellow archery hunters based on that.......STILL you guys fight a good thing (choice) because and ONLY because you do NOT want more hunters out there, then you claim they won't be.....[confused].
Your "state bow hunting org" can't show anyone ONE good reason for fighting the choice NO one would be forced to use one, IF no one wants to use crossbows why are their panties in such a wad? ARE they 'scared' that they're wrong and don't want it proven?
Case in point.......
NO I do not "know it", the DATA proves otherwise, period.
You guys "think" your OPINIONS "trump" real hard data , sorry they do NOT....but here is the funny part IF what you say is true, then there is NO reason to fear, as you just said, they have compounds
NOW IF that's the truth.....but I DO KNOW that the DATA (not feelings or opinions) PROVE (not guess) without ANY doubt that crossbows aid in recruitment (that NEW hunters btw) and retention (that's keeping older archery hunters longer) period....I've posted the proof dozens of times and NO one (including you) has been able to prove otherwise because FACTS and truth stand alone and can not be changed.....
.
NO
In the first place I don't need to call names to get a point across, IF I have said that post it up for all to see.....
Secondly (and just as important) THAT is the "whole point"I am NOT making anyone's choices NOR trying to; and I don't want ANYONE else other than the individual hunters themselves to make it either......YOU don't like them, that I can respect, however that does not give you the right to tell little suzie or old man Jones they CAN NOT use one to archery hunt with, it's their hunt (not yours or mine) thus ONLY they should make that decision....
I don't care WHO uses them or doesn't, ONLY they should have the RIGHT to make that choice themselves and not have others making it for them...... pretty simple and makes for unity and more numbers on OUR side against the anti hunters (more archery hunters EVEN IF they come from the gun hunter ranks and SOME will, but not that many and who CARES? Most here gun AND bow hunt based on the threads, using a compound or a crossbow shouldn't matter to anyone, the Anti hunters who want to END ALL BOW HUNTING does matter and should)... I want CHOICE and you guys DO NOT want that....instead you want things to be done "your way" or NOT at all! Totally different and counter-productive to doing what your "bow hunting org" SHOULD be doing to protect and preserve OUR sport.....NEVER has it gained to exclude from something that should be built on.....NEVER
NO.....
That wasn't even close to what I said, I was referring to "let-off" and you know that makes it MUCH easier to hold at full draw, which negates the "hand held and hand drawn" when you compare that with a long bow.....it's totally different and most can hold a 90%+ let off bow for a LONG time compared to one which has NO let off....
SO the TRUTH is , you guys want to argue over VERY small percentage of how much the bow holds and how much the archery hunter is holding.......too hypocritical for most to not see!
Whether YOU hold 10% (or even less) or 0% doesn't matter to the guy even 40 yards away.......period!
It is not "my opinion" the ATF, and EVERY other organization KNOWS they are archery .....get out more
.........and you'll see where they are, NOT with the guns .....but guess where you'll find them...check your catlogues, guess MOST KNOW what is true, a few short sighted folks still refuse to accept the reality of that BOW on the end I suppose, which changes nothing.....Sure they are!
Go to Ohio and tell them they're not after 3 DECADES and see what you'll be told (and about how it was a "good thing" for ALL involved) WHY is Ohio NOT losing archery hunter numbers at the rate of many other states in the region??? Because of ONE "simple" thing, CHOICE.......
Also I said "easier" not "easy"....just as a recurve is "easier" for most than a long bow, a compound easier still and a crossbow still easier especially for those who can't draw and hold another bow easily crossbows allow THEM to archery hunt with their parents, spouse, or children.........I happen to CARE about them and I don't use a crossbow and never have.....I just see the "big picture" and the VERY real danger our declining numbers pose, it's a REAL shame some of you don't and refuse to even try to do so....
BTW you still haven't answered my questions that no one else has (or can't)....
Again so you won't need to look
NO such thing as "x-gun" (is that something from the X Files?) and you need to do better now that I've explained (AGAIN) that I'm NOT a crossbow advocate.....I AM an advocate for the future of archery HUNTING and I KNOW for certain that CHOICE of archery weapon during an open to the Public archery season IS a "good thing"......since you don't happen to agree, please explain WHY YOU fight that simple CHOICE and unless you are unable to think on your own, the State Bow hunting Organization's stance doesn't HAVE to be your own, IF it is, then I'd like to KNOW why it is??
YOU will still be able to hunt EXACTLY as YOU always have, IF YOU don't want to use a crossbow, then DON'T....simple as that, thus it has ZERO impact on those who don't want to use them!
So based on those simple facts it appears (and is very obvious) the Bow Hunting Orgs are WRONG because in reality they are fighting against what they CLAIM to "stand for" protecting and preserving the sport of archery hunting.....NO one can show me ONE state where crossbows were included that archery hunting was harmed in ANY way......Ohio has a huge base of crossbow hunters hunting with (often along side of) other archery hunters and has for 30 years or so.......
The DATA and FACTS are on my side on this issue, that can not be disputed.....I don't want ONE person to use a crossbow who doesn't wish to do so, I simnply want those who do choose to use one to be allowed to participate in something I happen to LOVE ....THAT stance protects and preserves a sport, trying to keep others out does NOT....and can't
Inclusion helps, exclusion harms a sport.....period
Which is WHY there is t-ball, youth soccer with "easier rules", etc.etc.
*I* have seen first hand how inclusion HELPS the sport, I don't need "opinions" "feelings" or anything else to try to fool ME.....my state has proven it works, as have two adjoining states (Tenn and Va) ....it's interesting though there was NEVER this huge "onslaught" in any of them that so many "feared"...Most couldn't even tell the difference while hunting......the ones who got to use them knew, the F&G Departments knew from the increased revenue (and let's face it , takes money to operate them whether we like it or not)....with all the griping about costs in NJ daily on here, MOST would love to see this happen and fees NOT be raised so much or often.....
I've decided to work (and FIGHT) for that, a simple CHOICE.......nothing more....those who fight against it only do so for selfish reasons at the very expense of our sport!
Let's examine THAT further shall we?
THE NAA - the OLDEST archery organization have recognized crossbows for about 60 years. The International Bowhunters Organization has had a crossbow division for several years AND growing every year. THE NFAA now recognizes crossbows at its VEGAS championships. Atlantic City had crossbow divisions for years, that shoot was recently acquired by the NFAA, but its crossbow division is several decades old.
The Archery Trade Association and its predecessor, the Archery Manufacturers Organization recognizes crossbows as archery equipment.
So does most retail dealers- almost every shop that sells archery equipment and guns have crossbows in the archery department, not the firearm counter. Go into Bass Pro or Cabela’s or Dicks and see where the crossbows are kept.
Every archery catalog I get from the retailers has crossbows in it. Bow and Arrow Magazine carries crossbow advertising.
According to the Internal Revenue Service, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and all state wildlife agencies, crossbows are archery equipment:
> Crossbows and accessories that attach to crossbows as well as crossbow arrows are defined in the Internal Revenue Code that pertains to the archery excise tax.
> The US Fish & Wildlife Service receives the archery excise tax funds - of which about 10% are from crossbows - from the IRS and allocates those dollars to the state wildlife agencies through the Pittman Robertson program.
> State wildlife agencies receive archery excise tax dollars in amounts determined by a formula that includes the number of licensed hunters (including all those who hunt with crossbows) and the area of the state.
Regardless of what we "think", the government Says crossbows ARE archery equipment.
NOT "MY Opinion" alone now is it?
As I said ALL the facts and data support OUR stance, and do not support your guy's stance at all....
Why have crossbows been welcomed at NAA sanctioned shoots many years longer then the compound bow? Hmm?
A crossbow propels an arrow from the fastly forward moving string powered by a set of bent limbs. The trajectory of the arrow is VERY similar to that of an arrow launched by a compound bow. On the end of that arrow is the same broadhead that is used by any other hunting archer. That arrow kills that deer from lung collapse and blood loss.
THAT IS ARCHERY
A crossbow propels an arrow from the fastly forward moving string powered by a set of bent limbs. The trajectory of the arrow is VERY similar to that of an arrow launched by a compound bow. On the end of that arrow is the same broadhead that is used by any other hunting archer. That arrow kills that deer from lung collapse and blood loss.
THAT IS ARCHERY
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17,848 Posts
If they never purchased a bow lic before & then do so with an Xbow they are new blood. I could respect you more if you said that you don't want anybody new hunting during bow seasn. There is allready enough.
Try sitting out a season of Bow because an injury. I sat in a tree unable to draw & hold my bow this year because of a tear to rotator & crushed AC joint. Will it heal? Maybe in a few years but because you don't feel they a nesecary I have to sit it out. MINE MINE MINE. These debates started like this & you will end them like this.
YES it does in fact.......unless that game IS up a tree OR in the blind YOU are NOT in "the presence of game" period.......
THE main reason for those who use tree stands and ground blinds (and I don't use either,when bow hunting..... but have NO problem with those who choose to do so) .....IS to make them as undetectable as possible.......including making their scent harder to pinpoint, HARDLY in the "presence of game".....
Plus movement is movement...... whether it be drawing or raising and positioning the crossbow....Either can and will get you busted Unless you are careful, thus there is NO real 'point' here IMO
Then you must take off the safety (most are noisy) which is an advantage to the compound hunter....just as the awkward design of the crossbow makes it much harder to use from many tree stands not to mention from behind trees and other things.
They are NOT even close to guns and no one can ever change it by calling them "crossguns" ...it simply proves the fact when some can't make a good argument they call names and try to shift the focus from proven facts...
EVERY archery hunter should be able to choose for themselves what archery weapon(s) they'll use on their hunts.....that is ALL I'm wanting.....
[up]
Hope you heal completely and quickly, sorry you had to miss out over the selfish desires and agendas of a few....that sucks!
How many more miss out because like you they can't use other bows OR they shake too badly at full draw..to even attempt to bow hunt?? OR can't get to full draw with a bow they feel is "enough" to make a quick, clean humane kill?
SOME would rather they use that gear (that they shouldn't be hunting with) rather than the best choice FOR THEM a crossbow!
There is NO logic in that "thinking" either!
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6,834 Posts
My gosh aceoky, that was ALOT of typing...good thing I didn't read it all and this sentence I quoted was all by itself and easy to find.
It's really I all need to use to show you for what you are...a fraud and liar. Everyone who doesn't agree with you 100 percent is everything from greedy, selfish and narrow-minded to dictators...among other names you call them. You do it in almost every post. Even people who agree with much of what you say, and would say okay to crossbows much of the season but not all of it, for anyone and everyone, you still attack them, call them names, and then accuse them of dividing hunters. The fact is, as has been pointed out here many times, YOU are the one who actually divides hunters in an effort to push through YOUR agenda of crossbows in bow season. Same old tactic, everywhere you do it...divide hunters into two groups, tell one group that the other group is excluding them, or trying to keep them from something, get them at each others throats over that false impression, then call the group you oppose greedy, selfish, elists, narrow-minded, dictators, etc...the list goes on with you, in an attempt to guilt them into accepting your view. You completely try to crush people with degrading name-calling until they bow to your views. That is the truth of the matter.
You try to claim some high ground by acting like you don't do anything wrong, but that again is either a complete denial of reality, or a blatant lie. To say you don't push crossbows is also a lie...it's all you do here. To say you are only concerned with unity is another whopper of a lie because your main concern is pushing crossbows in bow season, not unity, you've proven that over and over. A great example of that is how you constantly brag about "fighting" for this issue...well, for someone who preaches unity so much you do an aweful lot of fighting, and bragging about fighting with fellow hunters, even to the point of calling them anti-hunters just because they don't bow down to your wishes of accepting your viewpoint. That my fellow bowbender is the essence of arrogance.
You are here only to fight with other hunters over crossbows, period. You are proud to be fighting State bowhunting organizations, and national bowhunting organizations, and State Fish and Game agencies to have crossbows pushed into bow season...that's alot of fighting for someone who says he's for unity. [confused] Trying to twist it some other way is nothing short of terrible spin, or an outright lie. And to try and claim you are some sort of freedom fighter would be insulting to those who have actually done that, if you weren't such an insignificant little turd and tremendously big joke. [rofl] [rofl] People who have actually fought and sacrificed for freedom know what that is, and they know what you are doing is nothing of the sort. Fighting other hunters to force crossbows into bow season is just that...fighting for crossbows, period. To paint yourself as some sort of freedom fighter, self-proclaimed or otherwise, is the height of ignorance. Get over yourself already, you are a joke. You may be some sort of internet sensation, or cyber hero for crossbows...CROSSBOW MAN [rofl][rofl], but you are no unifier.
You are a fraud when it comes to unifying hunters...you don't care about that, you care about pushing crossbows in bow season and that's about it. Your idea of unity is everyone else bowing to your views...now who is acting like a Dictator?
The fact is, you are here to fight with UBNJ, TANJ and all other hunters who don't agree with you. You come to these message boards to try and make some hunters believe that those "other" groups are keeping them from something, and that is a lie. It's a simple weapon restriction, period...a weapon restriction that 42 other State Fish and Game agencies, and nearly every State and National Bow Hunting organization agrees with, yet you have misrepresented it as some sort of civil war among hunters in New Jersey. But that is your tactic...divide, misconstrue and get them fighting among themselves. And oh yeah...tell them that "unity" is just accepting your viewpoint, and they are bad people for believing otherwise. [eyeroll]
The biggest tradegy in this whole thing is that myslef and others have actually wasted time responding to your lies and attempts to divide hunters here. The fact is, your main purpose here is to fight, and you've made no bones about that, we shouldn't be feeding your attempts to divide hunters. Unity means nothing to you unless it is defined as everyone else getting in line with your views, and that is the truth.
Lets look at the example you are setting. If everyone else were to use your approach to unify hunters, they would all be jumping on a pet issue, that is very divisive, and pushing to no end, even in other States, to get their pet issue forced on everyone else. How does that spell unity? [confused] Truth is, it doesn't and when you talk about unity among hunters, you are a fraud because your objective is crossbows in bowseason, period, despite how much in-fighting it causes.
You are not fighting "for" people as much as you are fighting against them, and that is the fact. You want examples of people actually fighting for hunters in NJ...look to apmaurso, Stronski, Jerry, Jack Spoto, and others who actually do fight for hunters, instead of coming here fighting against them, like you seem so proud of doing.
And I know I said I would avoid this in the spirit of Christmas, but hey, I changed my mind.
In keeping with the spirit of Christmas, I wish for Santa to bring you a new cape for your CROSSBOW MAN suit, a new keyboard (because you surely are wearing that one out in your fights with other hunters here...ooops, I mean you unity efforts, [eyeroll] and a realization of what the truth is because you seem to need that. You are certainly entitled to your opinion on crossbows, but so is everyone else. Your opinion on crossbows in no more important than mine, or jakesbeards, or Bacs, or super-x, or matty's or anyone else you don't agree with, so get over it. Just because they don't agree with you doesn't mean they are the enemy, or any of the names you like to call them. An no, you don't own any high ground on this issue, you are just as guilty of those you like to attack, of being the same things you call them, so get over it. I know that is a huge blow to your self-image, but hey, with a head that big, something was bound to burst it eventually. [hihi]
Right about here a jolly ole Santa smily would be cool.
Doug, I"m NOT interested in ANYTHING you have to say, but since you like to talk about "liars" I KNEW you would NOT keep YOUR WORD and stay out of this section.....
What does it make now 11 times you've stated you were NOT going to post here but DID after the fact, you have some nerve calling anyone a LIAR....when anyone can see that NOTHING you claim is EVER true and YOU CAN NOT (or won't) EVEN keep your OWN word.....you are full of yourself (among something else)....
Go join the Anti hunters again, and tell everyone what a "turd" that I am.......[down]
See, once you stated right here that you would do THAT......you lost ALL credibility and your claims mean less than nothing......your name calling and foolish accusations are foolish and from someone who would rather JOIN THE ENEMY then to WORK together.....with OTHER FELLOW HUNTERS.. NOT worthy of concern to anyone at all .....
YOU have NO right to talk about unity....YOU are a traitor (there you go NOW I've called YOU a name Doug and sadly you are what you are now) YOU brought that upon yourself......anyone can read exactly what YOU said about joining ANTI HUNTERS over a choice of weapon......Your "data" is way off, just as is your "thought processes"......and quite frankly YOU are not worth concern to me at ALL
So go and work with those ANTI HUNTERS you said that you would......don't again state you're going to do something and then do another thing.... you are way to predictable now.....
MOST folks don't respect a man who's word is useless and you have proven what your word is right here...
I fight for what I believe in and don't make bogus threats of joining the enemies, I would rather LOSE a battle then stoop to THAT level (unlike you did)....
I do NOT fight other fellow hunters as you have, I fight FOR them......IF that means a few minority "bow clubs" don't like that tough $hit....the FEW do NOT govern the many......NOT in a FREE Society.....they have for far too long, times are a changing...
A few "elitist"(in their own minds) can NOT dictate to the majority any longer some don't like that FACT.....still the facts and REAL data support what I FIGHT for...
NONE of you can say the same........
What does it make now 11 times you've stated you were NOT going to post here but DID after the fact, you have some nerve calling anyone a LIAR....when anyone can see that NOTHING you claim is EVER true and YOU CAN NOT (or won't) EVEN keep your OWN word.....you are full of yourself (among something else)....
Go join the Anti hunters again, and tell everyone what a "turd" that I am.......[down]
See, once you stated right here that you would do THAT......you lost ALL credibility and your claims mean less than nothing......your name calling and foolish accusations are foolish and from someone who would rather JOIN THE ENEMY then to WORK together.....with OTHER FELLOW HUNTERS.. NOT worthy of concern to anyone at all .....
YOU have NO right to talk about unity....YOU are a traitor (there you go NOW I've called YOU a name Doug and sadly you are what you are now) YOU brought that upon yourself......anyone can read exactly what YOU said about joining ANTI HUNTERS over a choice of weapon......Your "data" is way off, just as is your "thought processes"......and quite frankly YOU are not worth concern to me at ALL
So go and work with those ANTI HUNTERS you said that you would......don't again state you're going to do something and then do another thing.... you are way to predictable now.....
MOST folks don't respect a man who's word is useless and you have proven what your word is right here...
I fight for what I believe in and don't make bogus threats of joining the enemies, I would rather LOSE a battle then stoop to THAT level (unlike you did)....
I do NOT fight other fellow hunters as you have, I fight FOR them......IF that means a few minority "bow clubs" don't like that tough $hit....the FEW do NOT govern the many......NOT in a FREE Society.....they have for far too long, times are a changing...
A few "elitist"(in their own minds) can NOT dictate to the majority any longer some don't like that FACT.....still the facts and REAL data support what I FIGHT for...
NONE of you can say the same........
I WILL (after some thought) address that.....
I'm ONLY fighting against "know it alls' who refuse to accept OTHER'S CHOICES.....I make NO apologies for that, NOTHING I'm fighting for would affect/effect anyone NOT wanting the choice.....period..
So the "people" I'm fighting against are selfish who want to dictate to OTHER fellow hunters AND for NO good reason.......that's not going to change ....so deal with it!
YOU on the other hand do NOT want that choice YOU want to DICTATE YOUR WILL UPON folks you don't know, YOU would have Randy "sit out another season" SO YOU could feel "elite" or special........NOT ME!
IF you were 1/10 as smart as YOU THINK that you are, you'd by now realize the ONLY thing I am in fact fighting for is the RIGHT OF THE HUNTER TO MAKE THEIR OWN CHOICES>>>>>>>NOT YOU<<<<<<<<< (or anyone else) TO MAKE IT FOR THEM.........and along with that OUR future! MORE of US means a stronger voice NATION WIDE.......even a third grader can comprehend that simple fact yet it seems to be more than you can understand......that's really sad.
I happen to KNOW that upsets you a great deal that I have exposed you for what you are.....YOU would rather FIGHT than allow CHOICE!
All the while accusing ANYONE who stands up for their fellow hunter's RIGHTS as "wedges"......well Doug this IS America, the land of the FREE.........With freedom comes CHOICES......whether YOU like it or not, doesn't concern me one little tiny bit!
Joined
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14,376 Posts
NOT if that purchase comes at the COST of either reduced gun licence sales or a reduced length in the bowseason or the exact opposit reduced bow licence sales due to a reduction in the quality of the bowseason and an exidus of other bowhunters from that season.
All very real possibilitys if you think about it.
Whos obsessed here the ones who are DEFENDING a traditional bowseason or out of state money and invaders who are intent upon forcing change on those who live here?
Ask yourself is it the majority of NJ Bowhunters asking to include crossbows in the early fall bowseasons or is it gunhunters refusing to become bowhunters but trying to take what is not theirs supported by out of state interests?$$$$$
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