Its been brought to my attention.

Matty · Jul 28, 2007

It's been brought to my attention that there is basically a "war" going on between the crossbow section and the traditional section.

I think we need to hash this out without bloodshed.

I understand there is some frustration on the crossbow users part that members are coming into this section and causing problems. Therefore they felt the need to "retaliate" and 'cause trouble' in the trad section.

I've removed what I thought was "causing problems" in both sections. And I hope we can all cooperate with each other.

Lets all be adults about this. Please, no more threads personally addressing another user and then badmouthing their equipment. No more top ten or bottom ten lists full of insults.

Its childish and not useful or helpful at all.

I've always been honest that I am not interested in having crossbows in regular bowseason, but I am trying to be fair here.

You guys have a section for a weapon that isnt legal to use (unless handicapped) in this state. So consider yourselves somewhat fortunate that you at least have that.

Now what you want to make this section is up to you. Will it be a useful tool for those hunters wanting to use crossbows, a platform for debate or a little of both?

To me it seems like this is, and always will be, a hot topic, things normally get "heated". But if you're gonna have debates, keep it civil. Leave the name calling and insults in the kindergarten classroom.

If you want to debate crossbows, keep it in here and keep it civil.

I dont visit this section at all anymore, so if there is trouble, I'm not going to know about it unless someone alerts the mods.

Let us know, we cant help if we arent informed. Dont take matters into your own hands, it only makes things worse.

Furthermore, I have no personal problems with anyone because of their views on crossbows. You have every right to your opinion, as do I, even if yours is wrong!

So for the good of the site, all I ask is that we all respect each others opinions and debate like adults.

Thanks---Matt

hetley75 · Jul 28, 2007

great post and couldnt agree more...[up][up][up]

wingshooter · Jul 28, 2007

Mr. Mandela says...stop the injustices and treat everyone equaly [wallmad][hihi][spy]

Smack_A_deer · Jul 28, 2007

Matty,

I hope you post this in the traditional section where Jakesbeard and some others will read it. I know you were the one that deleted my posts and always move them to the crossbow section. I have to admit this pisses me off!!!! [mad] However, I know you have a job to do and I would like you to be fair about it. If you see jakesbeard posting nothing but instigation, maybe you should delete it "like you do with mine" or put it in the traditional section so he can look at it.

I believe in pro-choice and to let people hunt with whatever weapon they chose! I have a hard time holding back my feelings when being bullied or watching someone else get bullied. Like what jakesbeard does to others....

I participate on this site to talk about hunting and to share the stories of hunting. I don't start trouble unless provoked. I will leave J/B alone and stop the beatings, even though I'm sure his moral has not changed. But I would ask you Matty to be fair about the deletes and moves on both parties.

BTW Matty, I don’t know you and have never met you. I’m sure you can’t be that bad "pissing myself laughing" [rofl]. Maybe we'll meet some day and put all this crap to bed. Let's say we arm wrestle or bare knuckle it up. [smoke]

Just kidding. See ya some day. I'll be the good looking one in the NJH thong.

Kris, hook a brother up with one in camo.

kmtpr · Jul 28, 2007

Smack, Am glad you didn't leave the site. That would not have solved anything. I like reading your posts. I agree that things should be done more fairly.[up] BTW, did you read what I posted in your access denied thread?

Smack_A_deer · Jul 28, 2007

Yes, Thanks for the support. I was frustrated with Matty and had enough. I felt it wasn't being delt with fairly. Hopefully the nonsense will end and we "all" can enjoy hunting and posting.

BTW, hunt with what you want and do it well is my new moto. [up]

kmtpr · Jul 28, 2007

BTW, hunt with what you want and do it well is my new moto

Absolutely!! [up]

Cat · Jul 28, 2007

I have an idea? Lets see what crossbow men or women shoot against what traditional shoots this hunting season?

Beside the fight isn't with every one. Put them in a room and sit then down with a mod and iron it out.[rofl][rofl]

There you crossbow guys can hunt against the traditional people.[smirk]

Hunt with what you want.[cool][up]

aceoky · Jul 28, 2007

Matty with all due respect, jakesbeard for whatever reason likes to stir the pot all too well, as this post from him easily confirms in the traditional forum

So Matty does than mean no one who posts here regulaly can dispell any of the untruths spouted and preached by the paid C----b-- propagandists who frequint that forum nor can they counter the vile lies and charactor assasinations that are the evil spawn of their emotionaly unstable desyphals?

If so I will abide by your request (In protest while leaving the parapits of truth unmanned).

HE talks about "lies" while spewing forth unproven and unprovable foolishness, by calling anyone "a paid cb supporter".......an accusation he has been asked MANY times to either prove or to cease with the foolishness.

*I* hunt with both a recurve and a compound bow, I do not use a crossbow at all, may never, however I see the inclusion as a positive, (based on REAL data and facts from too many states...including my own here in Ky)

When JB and a few more can't refute the facts that I've bothered to gather and post for all here to use to make up their own minds , THEY make false accusations that somehow I'm a "paid crossbow salesman", which is not only absurd and false, they just made it up, they have NO proof (since it's 100% false there is NO doubt about that fact)

JB's above quoted post is full of insults and allegations, personal attacks on OUR characters, again with ZERO proof of any of it, yet he as "painted" the pro-crossbow inclusion crowd as LIARS and worse, for many who simply read that and had nothing else to go on , so it's obvious several who read that BS , likely believe it's true...since no one argued against it in that forum.

I didn't (even knowing it WAS about ME) and even though I do hunt with trad gear, quite often. I have far too much respect for my fellow hunters to constantly be in a "P" match with people who can't show any respect for other hunters who have different opinions..

The TRUTH is: though I've never seen the first penny from my supporting the CHOICE of crossbows, I have spent plenty of my own $$$ to start and maintain websites, and other things,I'm FAR from being "paid" , I'm putting MY $$ where my beliefs are!

Matt; it's true the crossbow is not legal in NJ .......YET, however there is NO harm in showing that since compounds ARE legal, and the crossbow is not the "magical" tool some say it is, that in reality everywhere it's been given the chance the harvest and success rates are IDENTICAL, the HUNT is also the same. To many of us, there is not harm and many positives in letting the hunters choose their own archery weapon(s) for archery season.

There is simply no reason for them to call us all liars, dividers, and worse because we support other hunters.
It is counter productive to our future to have hunters insulting and personally attacking other hunters over anything, much less something as simple as a choice.

Glad to see some of the garbage cleaned up. OUR image to the non-hunters should be important to all of us IMO.

I have not and don't ever intend to insult one over their own choices of weapons, it is too important to me that they are out there and happy. I'll support the hunter with the longbow just as I will the one with a crossbow, recurve, compound, or ML or shotgun!It's their hunt, so long as they're happy, I'm happy for them!

Jakesbeard · Jul 30, 2007

Matt; it's true the crossbow is not legal in NJ .......YET, however there is NO harm in showing that since compounds ARE legal, and the crossbow is not the "magical" tool some say it is, that in reality everywhere it's been given the chance the harvest and success rates are IDENTICAL, the HUNT is also the same. To many of us, there is not harm and many positives in letting the hunters choose their own archery weapon(s) for archery season.

Like wise there is no harm in countering those claims, most adults can see that.
No place in "The Rules" does it say those who preach for change and a change that could effect things negatively can't be questioned.
Please note also the post from me that stirred up the big $hit blizzard from your pals was not posted again until educational threads supporting traditional bows where attacked by people with a resentment toward them for some reason most of whom are regular crossbow forum supporters.
Debate if kept civil is good for all of us and when it involves something that could very well negatively change something many hold dear it is essential.

aceoky · Jul 30, 2007

Please note also the post from me that stirred up the big $hit blizzard from your pals was not posted again until educational threads supporting traditional bows where attacked by people with a resentment toward them for some reason most of whom are regular crossbow forum supporters.

"Fair enough", just make sure you realize that I had NO part in any of that at all.

Also while YOU speak openly about LIES, you continue to insult me by accusing me of something you know full well, I've explained is NOT true......YOU talk about other's lies, maybe YOU should examine things for yourself on HOW YOU are conducting yourself on here???

I do NOT and Have NEVER worked for any crossbow manufacturer OR in ANY other way been compensated at all, the opposite is in fact true, I've spent my own $$$ on websites etc. to further the fight for CHOICE of archery weapons during an open to the public archery season......and I shall continue to do so...despite those false claims made by some who like to talk about other's lies but refuse to check their own posts...

Jakesbeard · Jul 30, 2007

I do NOT and Have NEVER worked for any crossbow manufacturer OR in ANY other way been compensated at all, the opposite is in fact true, I've spent my own $$$ on websites etc. to further the fight for CHOICE of archery weapons during an open to the public archery season......and I shall continue to do so...despite those false claims made by some who like to talk about other's lies but refuse to check their own posts...

Sorry Ace,
I just can't buy it I have seen you on other sites you have used the web all over the country and it just does not add up, if it is TRUE what you say about your self than find a cause that you can fight for that is HELPFUL to others LOOK at all the choices out there REALY protect hunting or help wounded vets and unwanted domestic animals with that energy, there are dwindling natural areas hungry childrin and dieing critters you could be helping yet you battle for something like this and lets be frank here in the case of NJ you try to FORCE it on the majority in the face of the fact that this state is not like any other you use as an example. There is adaquit proof that with our tag system that intro that you fight DAY and NIGHT for would spell the end for what we know an enjoy as a bowseason yet you push on as if you were paid it is an easy assumption that your are indeed a paid mouth peice for a manufactures org and not just a misguided individual.

aceoky · Jul 30, 2007

just can't buy it I have seen you on other sites you have used the web all over the country and it just does not add up, if it is TRUE

Frankly JB I couldn't care less what YOU THINK....unless YOU have proof (which I KNOW you don't) then you should stop with the falsehoods....simple as that..

you try to FORCE it on the majority

HOW do YOU know what the Majority in NJ want or doesn't want??? You have made it clear what YOU want, but that's far from any majority...I want to KNOW where you get your information on this majority and what they want or do not want. NOT the majority of any "bow clubs" either, the "average NJ sportsman/woman" is what matters to me...

I have Serious doubts that YOU have talked to each and every one of them, and I KNOW the NJ F&G Council has been looking at this "for recruitment and retention of Archery Hunters"....I'd guess that just "maybe" they were asked by sportsmen/women of NJ to consider this, and that YOUR "conspiracy theories" (along with most that I've seen YOU post on this subject) are baseless and unfounded and I have yet to see you post the first "bit" of proof...

There is adaquit proof that with our tag system that intro that you fight DAY and NIGHT for would spell the end for what we know an enjoy as a bowseason

NO there is NO proof that it would "spell the end of bowseason" and when exactly is THAT season? Isn't it still ARCHERY season? To even "think" you can convince Anyone that to include one more archery weapon during an archery season FULL of other choices it totally absurd, which hasn't even slowed you down in the least.......You CLAIM "adequate proof" but have Never shown this alleged proof....why is that?

And NO JB I will fight for what *I* wish to NOT what YOU would like to dictate that I fight for, which is what *I* believe to be "right" AND in the best interest of archery hunting AND it's future, not for selfish motivations as some of you have done and continue right now to still do!

yet you push on as if you were paid it is an easy assumption that your are indeed a paid mouth peice for a manufactures org

YOUR "assumptions" are not based upon facts, nor can they ever be proven. When you ASS U ME you make an..... and when you do it "just because you feel like it" and have nothing to base any assumptions on, (despite the several times that I've explained TO YOU..that.. I'm fighting for the choice of an archery weapon that I don't even use, BECAUSE I've actually LOOKED at the data, facts and stats and made up my own mind that they are NOT any "threat" (real OR imagined) to anyone or anything...

You and yours continue to say "forced",(see your quote above) but WHO is actually forced to do anything? Can YOU and yours still not hunt just as you always have with your same archery weapons even IF this passes, sure you can!

Thus it is YOU (and yours) that is in fact "misguided" to continue to claim falsehoods as facts, to say "forced on you"when in reality it's ONLY ONE more choice of archery weapon (among many others already legal and in use)..

You and yours "fight night and day" so as to try to dictate to others on what they can use; so IF I did in fact fight "night and day" to oppose that stance, that's my business alone.

Just as soon as selfish individuals learn to share what they don't even own (and never have) I'll be more than happy to stop fighting that foolish and short-sighted stance! As of now when your kind keeps on spouting ME MINE, MY WAY or the highway rest assured, myself and many others of like mind will continue to show the truth and your kind's true colors and selfish motivations.

I believe 100% YOUR stance is in fact harmful and hurtful (both to feelings of others and to OUR image to NON Hunters)thus I can not and will NOT let the Non Hunters even start to think that ALL hunters are so selfish and have such ill feelings about other hunters who CHOOSE to do things different than they themselves do!

I also firmly believe that MOST hunters (including archery hunters ) are NOT so concerned with what other hunters are doing,OR hunting with; MOST IMO are happy to "live and let live", and do not hold foolish things such as choices against each other.

More and more hunters are realizing that petty differences are OUR enemies , and play right into the ANTIS hands, therefore they can't and won't support such short-sighted and dangerous agendas such as we've seen from some on this issue! It's not hard to see when you play into the enemies hands YOU are helping the ENEMY! And make no mistake the ANTIS are watching, and love such selfish behavior which they can later use against ALL of US....

I refuse to give AID to the Enemies goals, I refuse to call other hunters names such as "knucklehead" "slobs" "lazy" OR to divide into groups "bow hunters vs gun hunters" etc. I see us all as HUNTERS first and foremost......I see what we ALL love as a common factor, NOT something to "fight about", on what we do differently....*I* also understand that UNITED we stand a much better chance of preserving what we are all here because of , that's the great outdoors however YOU CHOOSE to enjoy it!(and with whatever tackle you like, recurve or crossbow fly fishing or spin fishing, ML or shotgun or rifle(where legal)

To do otherwise IMO is a losing battle , in the long run, WE either will work together OR we'll LOSE apart.....I'm for the former, and abhor the latter, even the thought of the ANTIS taking it all away makes me SICK ....just the thought, the actual reality of them doing it is much worse!

While at least most on your side (if not all) have repeatedly "bashed" all other hunters, especially gun hunters , proving that you and your side are NOT for unity, far from it! It's sad but very real, what we've all witnessed from your ANTI crossbow side...all over a simple choice of a weapon..the insults , the name calling, and worse....over WHAT?

Simply because some choose to archery hunt with a different weapon than you guys do.....big "whoop"..petty, foolish, selfish and short-sighted,IMO

super x · Jul 30, 2007

Lets get everyone with a bow license in NJ to vote on the issue. We will have a meeting, or 3 meetings(north, central, south), and bowhunters can speak and then vote for what they want in the NJ season.
But you can't vote unless you have a bow license in NJ

Smack_A_deer · Jul 30, 2007

For the life of me I can not find the reason of why people that have no interrest in a certain hunting tool have so much to say. Also, not just somthing to say, but to put down others thoughts and blast negativity. Why is the crossbow section the dumping ground for this behavier???? [down]

Can we open a thread just for complaints and call it the COMPLAINT DEPT...

aceoky · Jul 31, 2007

Lets get everyone with a bow license in NJ to vote on the issue. We will have a meeting, or 3 meetings(north, central, south), and bowhunters can speak and then vote for what they want in the NJ season.
But you can't vote unless you have a bow license in NJ

NOPE, EVERY sportsman/woman gets TO VOTE! YOUR way would keep the NEW archery hunters (if it passes ) from having a vote, which would further your agenda, no doubt but doesn't seem fair because it isn't.....

Public land belongs to ALL (not just to "bow hunters"), to leave out the majority of those who PAY for that PUBLIC land is foolish....those who pay the most (because there ARE more other sportsmen/women than there are bow hunters)......thus others pay the most on PUBLIC land, they ALL get a voice in how that money is spent.....how's that sound to you???[rofl][rofl][rofl][rofl][rofl]

Also it's foolish to "think" that only those who NOW participate in a season where the whole intent is try to ADD to those numbers would only want the current participants having a say in this, leaving out those who may wish to join in the season with crossbows added as a choice.....once again YOU guys trying to claim "ownership" of what is not and have never been yours to own....

You want a vote, fine, then let EVERY single sportsman/woman in NJ have a vote and say in THEIR own future.....

aceoky · Jul 31, 2007

For the life of me I can not find the reason of why people that have no interrest in a certain hunting tool have so much to say. Also, not just somthing to say, but to put down others thoughts and blast negativity. Why is the crossbow section the dumping ground for this behavier????

One has to come to the conclusion that anyone who is SOOO concerned about what other hunters choose to do , are inept in their own abilities OR they'd never worry or fear others joining in, what they claim to love and support!

How poorly they must feel their own hunting prowess is; to fear more archery hunters sharing the time outdoors with them, archery hunting of all things! Over a very long season no less!

I can't believe many are so concerned about what other archery HUNTERS are doing "over there"....when you read that aloud it's actually funny that they can keep a straight face posting on this issue.

Smack_A_deer · Jul 31, 2007

One has to come to the conclusion that anyone who is SOOO concerned about what other hunters choose to do , are inept in their own abilities OR they'd never worry or fear others joining in, what they claim to love and support!

How poorly they must feel their own hunting prowess is; to fear more archery hunters sharing the time outdoors with them, archery hunting of all things! Over a very long season no less!

I can't believe many are so concerned about what other archery HUNTERS are doing "over there"....when you read that aloud it's actually funny that they can keep a straight face posting on this issue.

[rofl]

Jakesbeard · Jul 31, 2007

Fact is I do not care about what you do that has no impact on what I do but when what you propose to do something that WILL have an impact on what I have been doing for almost 30 years.
It is also obvious or should be that I am not alone in this consern.
Ace, what do you care you do not hunt in this state so if the bowseason in NJ looses a good % of its quality what have YOU lost?
I see how much you care about the comments made by a fellow who LIVES and HUNTS in Ohio who stated that the crossbow has had in his opinion a negitive effect on his season and you couldn't care less.

aceoky · Jul 31, 2007

Fact is I do not care about what you do that has no impact on what I do but when what you propose to do something that WILL have an impact on what I have been doing for almost 30 years.

More unfounded speculation on your part.....HOW can you possibly state that it WILL have a negative impact on what you have been doing for almost 30 years?

MORE hunters to fight the ANTI HUNTERS in NJ is not a "negative" for you or anyone else! It is what is required, and is our own best interest. Some try to claim that doesn't happen ANYWHERE (and point to GA as "proof", so we'll examine the FACTS shall we?)

As for Samuel's CLAIMS, I KNOW people (including relatives of mine) who live and hunt IN OHIO, who say he's either NOT from there or is FOS......also Mike T. of the Ohio DNR facts and data refute EVERYTHING he's said, taken together, it's NOT that I "don't care" it's that I don't believe what he's trying to claim, not even close.

FACT: If (as Sam claims) the woods are "overcrowded" in Ohio during archery season, WHY are there SO many hunters hunting that time frame in Ohio? HOW is Ohio still in the top ten in B&C bucks? Wouldn't "common sense" tell YOU JB, that IF it were true, many would simply quit hunting during the archery season, harvests would decline (including book bucks)...

Ohio is not "hurting" even on NR license sales, WHY .....IF it's so "overcrowded" and "circuslike" as he wants us to believe??

WHY don't I believe him (other than what I've already shown?)

First HE "claims" crossbows haven't increased hunter numbers ANYWHERE, EVER, then HE "claims" the "only thing they've done is crowd the woods with slob hunters/gun hunters during archery seasons".....
NOW it's not hard to KNOW it can't be both. Also the GA data CLEARLY shows an INCREASE over three years AFTER crossbows were included, again refuting his false claims.

Also the DATA from Ohio has shown an increase for OVER 25 years, he "claims" to live and hunt Ohio, but then claims the Ohio DNR and their data is false?

VA,and Tenn have also shown good INCREASES in archery hunter's numbers again he says it's NEVER happened ANYWHERE (yet Ohio has kept records for decades proving that IS FALSE)

HE "claims" that ALL of the increases are from "slob gun hunters" crossing over....

HOW can anyone explain the increase OVERALL in numbers in EVERY state that has tried it?
DID some "magic" happen and some 8,000+ new hunters "just materialize"??
NO......there were NEW hunters period!
Otherwise there would not have been a "net gain" overall, simply look at the GA data, (I've shown different years, those increases can NOT be "gun hunters pushing into archery season" it's impossible!

Here it is again.....

here were 304,310 deer hunters that hunted deer in 2003-2004.

(AFTER Crossbows)

There were 294,619 deer hunters that hunted deer in 2001-2002.

*(PRE Crossbow)

IF that is NOT an increase please show me how it's not and explain what IS?

and YES those ARE NEW hunters! They have to be they were NOT there before crossbows were included, not in any way or fashion!

NOW go back and see how many more archery hunters there are (even with the decline in GA for one season) then tell me how crossbows (or any archery is the blame)...it's NOT..the FACT that archery (both trad and crossbow numbers) ARE STABLE proves it.

Its been brought to my attention.

Matty

hetley75

wingshooter

Smack_A_deer

kmtpr

Smack_A_deer

kmtpr

Cat

aceoky

Jakesbeard

aceoky

Jakesbeard

aceoky

super x

Smack_A_deer

aceoky

aceoky

Smack_A_deer

Jakesbeard

aceoky

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