I have a question for those of you who are knowledgeable in the area of politics and State Finance. This proposed property tax credit will "green up" most homeowners to the tune of 1,000 to 2,000 dollars. I think that this is very nice.[up] However, I have noticed a reduction of services in this state - especially when it comes to buying and maintaining state lands and parks, stocking fish and game, and most of all - in personnel and man hours for enforcement in the Fish and Game arena. Also, other state agencies have been reduced to automated answering machines as well. The state EPA is gutted in favor of "volentary compliance". [rofl] With the reduction in revenues, because of these tax credits, what will be cut in New Jersey now? Will the municipal and county portion of the tax bill just go up to compensate? (Remember the road kill shift) Is this just some smoke and mirrors that the Governor is using to deflect the reality of our taxes, from the Statehouse, so his administration can come out looking good? Can someone explain all this to me? I'm just a country boy.
Property Tax Credit-The Price
telefante
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Renters don't pay the 6, 8, 10 or 12 thousand dollar property tax bills the rest of us pay to send "their" kids to school. Why should they get anything back?
You don't pay for it, that was already paid for by the members of the pension system. The pension plans are fully funded by the members. Any politician or radio talk show host who say the pensions are breaking the state is lying to you, or doesn't have any idea what he or she is talking about. Health benefits may be costing the state, but not the pensions.
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you have paid into it but not all the state or town is putting most of the money into it at our cost
if you retire in your 50s after 30 years of working and receive a pension of $70,000 and say you live another 20 something years, do the math 70,000 times 20 something you have not paid that much into it, and thats just one person out of thousands
In most state pensions you ger x years/55 as the fraction, applied to your average pay over the last three years, that determines your pension amount. You must be at least 55 to get the full fraction. To get a $70,000 pension you would have to average $128,440 over your last three years. This could be true for some Principals and many superintendants but for a teacher the pension would be, on average, about $43,600. Now, granted, between the teacher and the school, there is no way that they have contributed $872,000 during those thirty years. It would be more like $160,000. But this is not a piggy bank it is an investment portfolio. If you salted away 160 grand over thirty years would you have 800 grand? Too, pension systems rest on the new guys that are working now. I believe that our pensions are fair. You did read that Whitman took our money for the general fund right. Now, I guess, since everyone in New Jersey enjoyed it then everyone, including teachers ironically, should pay it back. [hihi]
Despite what the public employee unions are saying to try to save face to the citizens of NJ, what Whitman did was miniscule, barely significant.
Too much was promised, for two long. Decades of retirment, with a defined pension check each month, and complete health benefits. No one ever thought about how to pay for it. The investments that the state makes, all over the world (not just the stock market) came no where near that amount of money. Well, they thought about it, they just said let the future pay for it somehow.
The amount of money that these people put toward thier pension from their paycheck, while they complain about how much it is, is not nearly enough. Just like a private entitiy does, the tax payers contribute to that amount the union member contributes, that's how it works, and that is fair. But the cost of these large defined pensions and health benefits is wiping every one out. If the union members want that retirement, they need to cough up mucho more than what they do know. A huge amount.
But, no, this disaster falls onto the tax payers.
Black Monday, you say? Yes, I know of it. It was the day that the tax payers of the state saw their 401's, their retirements, bite the dust. But the government labor union members? What Black Monday? The stupid tax payers of the state will have to make up every dime that was lost in the stock markets for the union members.
And how do we make up that money? By borrowing agaisnt anything that we can. And at a stupid high interest rate because the wall street investment firms know that what we are doing with the promised retirement packages make no sense. So, the noose tightens as they cut our credit rating. Insane.
General Motors - GM (Generous Mother, the retired union members fondly refer to the company) is in the same boat (although their retirement packages were not nearly as good as NJ State Employee Pension System). GM has been able to lay off a gazzillion workers, and start to pare down the bleeding. They sold off EMD, what was the biggest locomotive builder in the world, to get cash. They're selling off GMAC, their profitable financing company, to get cash. And more. But they still may not survive. But those tax dollars just keep coming and coming.
And it goes on and on. All because of the corrupt, cowardly legistaors down in Trenton. And our governor litteraly left his family to be with that state union labor leader... Katz ??
Remember when Cody took over for McGreevey, his big speech to the citizens, he got up and admitted that the tax payers have been screewed year after year by this stuff, just so they could keep getting themselves re-elected. He said things were going to change, we would just not do it "on the backs of poor people." But he did nothing. nothing. He got up there like a good Irish-Catholic and did Confession, but then he did nothing. He will burn in hell like the rest of them down there in the state house.
I'll always remember McGreevey and the democrats pushing through the state budget in the middle of the night. In the very bill that would allow the municpalites 5 years to increase the pension payments (to spread out the big property tax increases over 5 years) the PBA got an amendment to the bill that will "sweeten" police pensions by 9% (I think) if the pension plan gets to 105% funding. "Pie in the sky," the PBA lobbiest said .... we'll see. I was getting responses to my emails during the middle of night from my Morris County legislators, expressing their disgust and embarrassement, but democrats run everything.
I am pretty much for unions. I know they have done a lot of good. But what has happened in NJ with the government employee unions is criminal and insane. It makes me so frigging mad because this is my home and where I am raising my kids. And this stuff is the very death of the state. There is no future for NJ.
And if I were a policeman, etc .... I would be so happy, and looking forward to retirement, and I would do everything I could to keep my benefits. I do not blame the actual employees (what should have they done .... refuse it all?). Hell, I'm jealous! All the citizens of the state are. Its the corrupt system that did it.
Even present benefits, health care, time off, hours actually worked, holidays, raises, etc....its way out of wack compared to what the tax payers get. I have teachers and one policman in my family, and i listen to what they have. And my wife works for a huge internation company headquarted here in NJ, I'm lucky to have her benefits. But our monthly premium contributions, and co payments, and deductables, etc. And they go up a lot each year .....
Dang. And to think, I turned down a fireman's job years ago when I got out of the Marines. [confusedagain]
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actually its 22% because of compounding..get the BIG tube of KY.[cry]
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I pay just about $1,000.00 a month now...how much more do you think I should pay?
You have no idea of what you are talking about. The entire public employee/health benefits program(including salaries for ALL workers) is less than 4 percent of the budget...it's not wiping out anyone. The pension systems are fully funded by the members...you as the tax payer don't pay for any of it. All the freebies to people who aren't working for the benefits is what is hurting the budget. Why are you going after the people who are actually working for it?
Very, very few people in the pension system will get that amount, you are highly exaggerating the actual benefit. If a state worker retires at age 55 (the mandatory minimum age) they receive a pension that is 65 percent of their last years salary. The vast majority of state workers are not earning that much money.
My wife has been a state employee for 22 years, her salary is about $38,000.00 a year for a senior clerical person...comparable to an Office Manager in private industry. Go find out what an Office Manager makes and get back to me. Then do the math on what her pension would be if she were to retire at that rate. Your anger at state workers for "wiping you out" is tremendously misplaced. You must listen to way too much talk radio. And if you think it really is that great, go get a state job and get all those great things that come along with it yourself and stop being envious. [cry]
State jobs are relatively few and far between these days (hiring freeze). State employees in the same field as myself and colleagues and with the same experience make about the same salaries - I give you that. Its the 3 weeks of sick time, who knows how much vacation, and a ton of holidays that I am envious of. I know. My wife used to work for the State. You guys have it pretty good. Oh yea, and not too much stress.
Then how do you get a defined pension check each month for the rest of your life? If it is only your money being invested, that amount will go up and down. Just as my investments do.When the stock market went south, did you guys lose huge amounts of your money? And you pensions were going to be alot less. Of course not. The tax payers foot the bill. And the health insurance premiums are choking people out of business. I own one. I know how much the premiums go up each year. Double digit increases year after year after year. How much did your health insurance costs go up in the past years. Or did the taxpayers foot that bill. How much does a prescription cost you. Maybe the teachers and the police officer in my family are lying to me. And the $78 Billion completly unfunded bill for retirees health benefits .... you say I made this up? I made up this stuff about Standard & Poor's?
You're being a good union man and pulling the union line .... too bad there are so many people in NJ that go right to the sports section of the paper instead of reading the important stuff.
And we keep cutting money to our state university .... Rutgers. Undergraduate tuition, a bed in an overcrowded dorm room, and a meal plan, was exactly $19,000 this year. In state tuition. Add a few thousand for fees and books. And then Corzine goes down there to the union rally. He does not understand that the unions are his enemy, that they want to bleed him for everything they can get out of him (as they should, its their job). But, he's litterally in bed with the (CWA - ?) union president. It never stops.
Besides my state income tax and sales tax, what does my prop tax go to? 72% of it goes to the school budget .... 80% of that goes to teacher salary and benefits. 23% of my property tax goes to the township, what percentage of that goes to the police salary/benefits? My propety tax is $11,000 each year. I'm getting choked just on prop tax. Or am I making all these numbers up?
NJ Bowhntr,
I agree with most of what you say but the taxpayers do fund some of the pension fund. The towns have to pay a % of each workers salary to the pension.
At least that is what is done in PERS and PFRS. Not sure about the teachers.
That said, my contribution towards my pension is $410 a check at this time. We are paid bi-weekly. It will go up when I get my raise this year.
I agree with most of what you say but the taxpayers do fund some of the pension fund. The towns have to pay a % of each workers salary to the pension.
At least that is what is done in PERS and PFRS. Not sure about the teachers.
That said, my contribution towards my pension is $410 a check at this time. We are paid bi-weekly. It will go up when I get my raise this year.
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I thought the topic was about state workers and the state budget, not municipal...maybe I read it wrong.
I believe the state workers are also in PERS, are they not?
State employees in the PFRS have their contributions matched from state money I'm sure and that is funded by taxpayers.
I do agree though it is a very small amount compared to the overall budget.
Also, I admit I didn't read every post on this so I thought we were talking public employees and taxpayers in general.
State employees in the PFRS have their contributions matched from state money I'm sure and that is funded by taxpayers.
I do agree though it is a very small amount compared to the overall budget.
Also, I admit I didn't read every post on this so I thought we were talking public employees and taxpayers in general.
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TJC, last I knew, the state had not contributed to the pension fund since the Whitman administration...not a dime. All they did was take money out. Unless something changed in the last year or so, I imagine it's still that way. I'll admit, I don't keep up with as much Union stuff as I should, but I know at one point it was 7 years running they had not contributed.
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you state workers aren't what we should focus on anyhow...how does a billionaire (gov) know what its like to always be up against the wall at the end of each month after we (i) work my balls off and have nothing left after all the friggen tax,insurance,interest,gas(now there you just bend over),ETC... i live in a small house , make decent money , don't waste money or overuse credit and yet by the the time everyones hands get out of my pockets..broke..yes my choice to be self employed but the gov thinks we should foot all their bu*&#hit programs and state paychecks and etc while i pay my own health..retirement(joke)..savings(joke)..i'm not saying you union boys are robbing me but you sure have lost sight of how the rest of us civilians pay the tab....wheres the money they pay you with COME from ?
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