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Christie... new gun control

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#22 ·
Christie is window dressing in New Jersey now, ready to make a hasty exit. Expect nothing from him. Besides, New Jersey has been a state of firearm possession by exception since 1966. Our police state has a process in place where you need permission/approval by the police before you can even proceed to a NICS check. When Christie is gone the real fun begins. Bet on it!
 
#24 ·
kevikens said:
Ryan S: I wanted to think a bit before I replied to you. I am not sure you read the posting previous to the one you replied to. In that first one I thought I did a pretty fair job of pointing out why I think this portion of the new bill was not a good idea for several reasons, but you are correct in pointing out that my two postings should have included what I would prefer with respect to firearm possession and the watch list. I don't want the FBI to discontinue the list and I don't want terrorists to be able to lawfully purchase firearms but if firearm possession is to be denied to those on the list, at least here in NJ as this bill will require, there must be some due process procedure, some kind of legal mechanism, some kind of hearing , where a person who finds himself on the list has a means to challenge their inclusion on that list and a way of getting off it. Presently there is no such protection under federal law. Should a person be denied the NJ purchasing card because his name winds up on that list, what is he supposed to do? If the NJ bill is so constructed that a person denied the card is given a due process hearing in a NJ state court where he may challenge his inclusion on that list and if the Feds cannot, or will not divulge why he is on it, then that person should be permitted to go through the normal procedure for getting and keeping his card.
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Well said.
 
#29 ·
kevikens said:
Ryan S: I wanted to think a bit before I replied to you. I am not sure you read the posting previous to the one you replied to. In that first one I thought I did a pretty fair job of pointing out why I think this portion of the new bill was not a good idea for several reasons, but you are correct in pointing out that my two postings should have included what I would prefer with respect to firearm possession and the watch list. I don't want the FBI to discontinue the list and I don't want terrorists to be able to lawfully purchase firearms but if firearm possession is to be denied to those on the list, at least here in NJ as this bill will require, there must be some due process procedure, some kind of legal mechanism, some kind of hearing , where a person who finds himself on the list has a means to challenge their inclusion on that list and a way of getting off it. Presently there is no such protection under federal law. Should a person be denied the NJ purchasing card because his name winds up on that list, what is he supposed to do? If the NJ bill is so constructed that a person denied the card is given a due process hearing in a NJ state court where he may challenge his inclusion on that list and if the Feds cannot, or will not divulge why he is on it, then that person should be permitted to go through the normal procedure for getting and keeping his card.
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You are correct .... the FBI's Terrorist Screening Center will neither confirm or deny inclusion on the Terrorist Watch list to a citizen. The FBI, with congressional oversight, deems it necessary for obvious reasons.

However, once triggered ... when it affects a citizen .... that person can indeed start the redress process. It is done through the agency that performed the screening. In our gun purchase example, it would be the FBI's NICS in West Virginia.

If a person was denied a NJ FPID card because of their inclusion on the FBI terrorist watch list (the state does not maintain such a list), and they are incorrectly on it, then they would reapply for the card after the redress process is complete. Just as I personally had to reapply for my card after I had a matter expunged.

Your statement from your first post: "This new bill is an easy way for the government to deny one's right to purchase a firearm, just put the names of folks it does not like on the list." Sorry man, to me that's just crazy talk.

My 2 cents.

Good shooting
Ryan Soriano
 
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#30 ·
RyanS: How long will it take for it take for the "redress process" to take? At what cost? How does one go about proving one is "not" a terrorist? On whom is the burden to prove the charge, the FBI or the accused? What percentage of persons who have wound up on the list have ever gotten off it? Your reapplication process was apparently for something other than inclusion on the "Watch List" so I think the process may be quite different from what you imagine. I am sorry to disagree with you but I see the use of a secret list of people as a reason for denying firearm ownership, without a public, due process hearing, with the burden of proof on the agency making the assertion, to be an extraordinarily dangerous assumption of power by the state and a very easy way for the state to deny firearm ownership by burying the permit process in a labyrinth of paper work, much of it kept secret for security reasons. I hope we will never have to find out just who is right about this.
 
#31 ·
Worse, so you go ahead and stay with the lying POS while he strips all of us of our rights. What will you say then? Well at least we were screwed by a Republican!
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. Yes, because the loons on the left never stole from your pension or tried to take your right to own away :stupid: I guarantee the bills Christie vetoed would have been law right now if a dem was in and darn sure know it to be fact that they will be law if another dem gets elected after Christie is gone.
 
#32 ·
kevikens said:
RyanS: How long will it take for it take for the "redress process" to take? At what cost? How does one go about proving one is "not" a terrorist? On whom is the burden to prove the charge, the FBI or the accused? What percentage of persons who have wound up on the list have ever gotten off it? Your reapplication process was apparently for something other than inclusion on the "Watch List" so I think the process may be quite different from what you imagine. I am sorry to disagree with you but I see the use of a secret list of people as a reason for denying firearm ownership, without a public, due process hearing, with the burden of proof on the agency making the assertion, to be an extraordinarily dangerous assumption of power by the state and a very easy way for the state to deny firearm ownership by burying the permit process in a labyrinth of paper work, much of it kept secret for security reasons. I hope we will never have to find out just who is right about this.
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I couldn't agree more with Kevikens posts. There's no place for secret lists that US citizens don't know they're on, do t know how to get off of it and can get caught up in a red tape, black hole while costing thousands to fight it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#33 ·
Who is to say as members of this forum "we" aren't on such a list?[confused][confused][confused]
 
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