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Advice On Crossbow Shooting Needed

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buckfever1974

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Hey guys.

I'm looking for some advice on shooting crossbows offhand or in general if it applies. As long as I have a decent rest, I've had pretty good accuracy results shooting my Barnett Vengeance. I sited in as if it were a rifle with bags and rests so I know the crossbow is sited in and the equipment is sound out to 30 yards. What I've come across in the couple of crossbows that I've owned is that I struggle somewhat without those rests or shooting rail. I'm pretty good picking up a .22 rifle and shooting at targets out to 40 and 50 yards offhand but I've struggled getting groups like that with the crossbow and it annoys me to high heaven. Alot of my stands have the railing but I don't want to restrict myself. It seems to me that crossbows always have the longer trigger pull I'm guessing because of the opposing force of the string unlike that which you would have on a rifle. If anyone has any recommendations on shooting crossbows offhand or in general, I'd appreciate it. Tough to admit I could use some help with something like hunting but I figured I'd give it a shot. If there are any tips on how you all breath even when you pull the trigger, I'm curious. I tell the kids to practice the way you will shoot in the field and that practicing bad habits translate to bad results down the road.

Thanks for any advice you can give.

Brian (Rockaway, NJ)
 
#2 ·
Some have said you should use the "TarHunt" method of shooting slug guns when you're shooting your crossbow. That is to hold down while pulling back with your front hand, and pull back into your shoulder pocket with your back hand. Apparently this is supposed to control the muzzle jump of a slow slug going down the barrel, or a relatively slow arrow going down the rails. My only problem with this is your ability to apply the SAME force with this down & back pressure on EACH & EVERY shot. Be that as it may, it's something you might try to see if it works in your case.
 
#3 ·
Nothing wrong with admitting that you need help with hunting/shooting. We all have problems even those of us who won't admit it. I have been shooting and hunting with a crossbow for about five years. I still have not mastered off-hand but I am getting better and I am comfortable with taking a shot at a deer if I need to. But, still prefer to use a rest and only shoot off-hand if the rest is not possible. The only thing I know to help with off-hand is lots of practice. I practice breathing etc the same way as rifle shooting. But, with the crossbow it is more difficult. I find the bow weight is not distributed and balanced as good as my rifles. So, steady hold is more difficult. And the crossbow trigger pull is not as smooth as my rifles. Also, with a rifle you can practice dry firing to eliminate flinching which is not possible with the crossbow. I use a knee pod in the stand. It is inexpensive, lightweight, very portable and easy to manage. It gives me very steady hold and I shoot much more accurate with it. It also supports the weight which makes it much more comfortable to hold the bow for hours when in my stand. But, if you must shoot without a rest then just lots of practice until you become comfortable with the crossbow.
 
#5 · (Edited)
I think your expectations of a crossbow are too high. A .22 rifle is WAYYYY more accurate than ANY crossbow at 40-50 yards. You gotta remember you are shooting an arrow, not a bullet. Arrows are influenced by gravity longer and are more susceptible to wind drift. The further out you shoot, these influences get extrapolated.

This is what you should do. Take your crossbow out and practice holding the thing up in shooting position for one minute straight, off hand, then shooting one bolt at your target. Start at 20 yards and keep practicing that until you can hit the bullseye dead ringer every time. Them move back to 25 yards, 30, 35, etc. That's closer to what will happen during hunting versus standing in front of a bag and firing 100 bolts off in rapid succession. Get used to holding the bow up for extended periods of time.

For breathing just do the same as you would do for a gun. Take a few deep breaths, slowly exhale, and as your breath runs out shoot in the few seconds where you are settled before you get the urge to breath in again. Squeeze the trigger and keep your head down on that scope. Do not lift your head. Do not try to look at the arrow flying anywhere else except through the scope. After the shot is taken, the arrow flys, and hits... then AND ONLY THEN should you lift your head off that crossbow. If you lift your head I promise you will blow the simplest of shots.

As far as the trigger, that depends on the brand. I hear lots of people complain about lousy triggers on crossbows. Well when I bought my Parker the trigger was one of the most important things I checked!!! I made sure the bow had a good trigger. I love my Parker trigger. If you have a bow with a trigger you absolutely hate, I suggest either selling it and getting a bow you do like... or live with it and just "get to know it". Even a "terrible trigger" is manageable as long as its repeatable.

I would not use a shooting rail on a stand. This is bow hunting. You are not shooting a deer 100 yards away with your XB. You should have SERIOUS doubts about even attempting a 40 yard shot. Stick to 30, maybe 35 yards. You'll hear lots of guys on here saying they killed a deer at 50 yards or whatever with their XB, but I'll tell ya now that is LUCK. It was LUCK that the deer didnt move after the shot. It was LUCK that the wind didnt kick up and push the bolt. It'll be the same guys that post on here that they gut shot a deer and tracked it for 12 hours or lost a deer cause they blew the shot.
 
Discussion starter · #6 ·
lhhunter said:
I use a knee pod in the stand. It is inexpensive, lightweight, very portable and easy to manage. It gives me very steady hold and I shoot much more accurate with it. It also supports the weight which makes it much more comfortable to hold the bow for hours when in my stand.
Click to expand...
Are these the pads that they sell for turkey hunters when shooting from the ground? Curious if someone can send me a link. Living in an apartment complex sucks. I would be able to practice much more if I had the backyard to just jump into after work every day. Thankfully, I can shoot pretty well with a rest in the stand but it often limits you to ladder stands that weigh a lot. Hunting on my own a bunch now with my dad up in age and in ill health at times. Setting up a lock on with climbing sticks is much easier on my own.
 
#8 ·
I have a Parker Hornet and have been using it for quite a few years now. My best advice would definitely be to concentrate on your breathing so that you are careful not to move the crossbow when you inhale or exhale (moving it the slightest bit at 30-40 yards can make a big difference on where the shot ends up). Also, don't be afraid to use shooting sticks. I'm not sure about in a tree stand, but in a blind, it makes it very convenient to be able to rest the crossbow on the shooting sticks when a deer is approaching so you can concentrate on aiming and lining up your shot rather than your arms getting fatigued from holding the bow up to your eye for a long period of time
 
#9 ·
I would not use a shooting rail on a stand. This is bow hunting. You are not shooting a deer 100 yards away with your XB. You should have SERIOUS doubts about even attempting a 40 yard shot. Stick to 30, maybe 35 yards. You'll hear lots of guys on here saying they killed a deer at 50 yards or whatever with their XB, but I'll tell ya now that is LUCK. It was LUCK that the deer didnt move after the shot. It was LUCK that the wind didnt kick up and push the bolt. It'll be the same guys that post on here that they gut shot a deer and tracked it for 12 hours or lost a deer cause they blew the shot.
Click to expand...
JDH, I'm afraid I must totally disagree with this entire paragraph and your line of thinking. Your first point regarding not using a shooting rail because this is "bowhunting;" Unless you're a trad guy with a stick and string, the point is somewhat dubious at best. I imagine you must then advocate no sights, scopes, stabilizers, etc.?

You arbitrarily mention sticking to 30/35 yards. Is that some magical "no fail" distance? If a guy is proficient from a rest at 40/50 yds, why would you advocate "not" using a rest and handicapping yourself at 30? Isn't the idea to get the arrow where it needs to be?

As far as "luck" with longer range shots, I'm afraid that viewpoint doesn't make a lot of sense to me either. I think the guys who "don't" use a rest of any type, may be the ones who would more likely be in the "12 hour tracking" situation you mentioned.

My point in all this is, I find it counter productive to precision, and quick clean kills, to discourage someone who is obviously not totally proficent yet, from using a rest to shoot from and minimizing any chance of an errant shot and a wounded or lost animal.

Just the viewpoint from here.
 
#10 · (Edited)
Sound travels a lot faster than arrows. You can be the best shot in the world and a deer can jump your shot at ranges past 35-40 yards. The guy is having issues with shooting at distance, so why advocate even attempting these shots?

i consider myself a decent shot and I would not even attempt a longer shot with an Xb for the simple reason that your target is a moving object. Not to mention wind really opens up your shots the further out you go.

the no-shooting rail thing is because you cannot expect the deer to walk right in front of you and give you a perfect shot. More than likely you will get a shot where you may have to lean or turn at a strange angle to pull off. That will requires skill in shooting offhand. Can you use a stick or rest? Sure! But I would practice your shooting without so you dont get duped into a false sense of confidence when your bow when you pick the thing up and attempt and off hand 40 yard shot for the first time without practicing.

Thinking back to last season, two of the five deer I shot were shots made behind my tree. One was through a V, and the other one I was literally leaning around the tree to make it. Those deer would have walked if I relied on an aid for accuracy. The other three were so close to my stand I could have dropped my pants and peed on the deers head. A aid was not even useful for those shots.

oh, just FYI, I'm talking about shooting from a treestand, not from a ground blind. Maneuvering a bow in a blind with an aid is MUCH easier than trying to use one hanging up in a tree.
 
#11 ·
I hear ya, but I'm not simply "advocating" shooting longer distances, I'm just saying there are ways to minimize the variables so you can be reasonably certain you would make a good kill at longer ranges.

Let's take the "sound travels faster" issue. Yes, no doubt sound travels faster than an arrow, But don't take that to mean that the millisecond time interval that the sound travels to the deer's ear to be the amount of time your arrow must get to the deer. You must also account for the reaction time of the deer in relation to it's disposition at the time of the shot. If it's on edge, maybe a bit quicker reaction time, granted, but that all comes with experience in the field. I'm getting off my point however.
When you consider the sound traveling to the deer, and the deer's reaction time, your arrow has plenty of time to get to the deer if your shot placement is correct. You also must consider, if the deer is further away, the noise will have a bit less effect, so the reaction may be a bit less severe. And as far as I know, there isn't a deer on the planet that can "see" your arrow coming and get out of it's way! LOL So it's obviously all sound and reaction based.

So, all things considered, if your point of aim is in the lower third of the vital zone, you should make a very effective kill shot whether the deer reacts to the sound or not.
Again, as it relates to our discussion of using a rest or not, you "would not" be able to maintain the steadiness or degree of accuracy necessary to confidently make a shot out to 40+ yards given the above possibilities, if you weren't using a rest of some sort.

So I guess what I'm saying is, if you want to take advantage of the capabilities of advanced archery equipment such as crossbows, you will need to apply some added measures, as our own capabilities are not up to par with the equipment's. The equipment is capable of putting an arrow through the same hole virtually every time at distances much greater then 40 yards. It is our limited capacity as shooters that prevents that from being consistent. So, any means that are legal, and may help in that regard, should be taken advantage of.
 
#12 ·
do a search on the web and you'll read about plenty of deer that jumped a shot at way less distances than 40 yards. I had one do it to me at close range... perfect 25 yard broadside shot and I hit the dang thing in the spine. It dropped like a sack of potatoes when I took the shot. I figured I was lucky to get that one... I had to climb down the tree and shoot it again. Looked like a murder scene in the snow HAHAH. I was out with makosnax like a month ago shooting 40 yards off hand with my XB... easily could kill a deer at that range BUT deer move! They hear that string and its a reflex to drop... not a reaction. They dont see anything. They hear that pop and they drop crazy fast.

 
#13 ·
Yep, I get all that, no disagreement. Reflex/reaction, same difference, the fact is they move(sometimes). But, if you aim correctly (lower third of the vital zone) you can minimize the effect of that movement, and it's easier to do if you're on a rest. That's all I'm saying.

If we take your example of your deer ducking at 25 yds, what is the alternative? Not shooting at any animal past "unduckable" ranges of 15 yards+-? It's not realistic, so all you can do is minimize the effect of the reflex/reaction.

I don't think there's any recorded data on deer ducking vs. not, but in my experience only, I've had less duck the string than those that do. I'm not saying it can't/won't happen, but again, in my experience it's not been a factor, and Ive taken deer past the 30 yard range.
 
#14 ·
Oh yeah, one more thing. The video is a bit misleading. Those arrows being shot are pretty dam slow, it was a "beginners" bow, and the white circle is an assumed POA. The arrow that nicks the one deer was obviously not ever going to hit that circle even if that deer was a marble statue! LOL

Anyway, there's a perfect example of why speed is a factor, but that's another discussion...
 
#15 ·
I do not know if they make this for your Barnett or something like this but I have a Ten Point crossbow and now I shoot it off hand almost as good as on the sandbags with the Steddy Eddy that attaches to the crossbow. You can slow stalk with it hook loose to your belt loop. I think it works great.
 
Discussion starter · #16 ·
Well, I feel better knowing that several others are using shooting sticks or the shooting rails. I only get to practice once or twice a week because of obligations with kids and sports and the fact that I live in an apartment. I appreciate all the advice and will use it next week when I try and pick up the pace at the range a bit if I can grab the time to do it.
 
#18 ·
buckfever1974 said:
Are these the pads that they sell for turkey hunters when shooting from the ground? Curious if someone can send me a link. Living in an apartment complex sucks. I would be able to practice much more if I had the backyard to just jump into after work every day. Thankfully, I can shoot pretty well with a rest in the stand but it often limits you to ladder stands that weigh a lot. Hunting on my own a bunch now with my dad up in age and in ill health at times. Setting up a lock on with climbing sticks is much easier on my own.
Click to expand...
Here is a link to one on sale at ebay with bids ending tomorrow. Used to have them at Sportsmans Guide but I could not find one there. You can check the ebay to get a look at it and maybe you can find other stores online that carry them. I did not check but there may also be some videos online that show these in use. They are made by Horton. So, check with Horton's customer service it you cannot find one.

kneepod | eBay
 
#19 ·
I've killed a boatload of archery deer from 5 yards to 47 yards, from 256fps to 386fps, from just about every conceivable angle other than directly behind, and never had one "duck the string." It may happen, but I've never seen it. As Pathman recommends, I always aim for the lower section of the vitals. As for shooting sticks or a rest, I "NEVER" take a freehand shot with my crossbow. There is no reason to.
 
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