New Jersey Hunters banner
Cancel
Create thread New Forums

The future of APR's in NJ?

Jump to Latest
1 - 20 of 96 Posts
N

NJ_Bowhntr

· Registered
Joined
·
6,834 Posts
Discussion starter · #1 ·
If you would like to see the use of APR's expand, or at least survive where they were just implemented, I suggest you write a letter or send an email to the F&G Council.

Dave Burke, the Council Chair, is calling for a new survey to measure the dissatisfaction with the APR's in the zones where they were just implemented last season. He feels that after two seasons, a fair measure of the program can be achieved and is calling for another survey to see if hunters still want them or not.

If you think that one or two seasons is not enough to truly measure the success of the program, you're right. Obviously, he doesn't care about that and is only trying to capture the highest level of dissatisfied hunters he can by calling for a survey during the period where hunters have to make the sacrifices without being able to see the rewards. It takes several seasons for the program to pay off, and he seems hell bent on ending it before that payoff can be realized.

Please write to the Fish and Game Council. Send letters or emails to several members if you can. Mr. Burke is dedicated to ending the program before it ever gets going, ask them all to give it a fair chance and wait five years before such follow-up is conducted.
 
#2 ·
Well the program hasn't paid off in the zones its been implemented for several years now. With 6 bucks a year the APR don't help anything. I've been hunting APR zones for the last 10 years and to be honest I have not seen any benefit to the APR's. Now I typically target mature bucks so APR don't bother me since I don't plan on shooting deer that wouldn't be legal (for the most part... there is a huge 4pt I was watching for 3 years that I may have shot to remove from the area if not for APR). I'd rather see the state do away with a couple of the buck tags per year than get too involved in antler point restrictions.
 
#4 ·
Dave Burke, the Council Chair, is calling for a new survey to measure the dissatisfaction with the APR's in the zones where they were just implemented last season
Click to expand...
It won’t take a mind reader to guess how that “Survey” will be worded so as to steer the respondent toward the correct answers, given our previous experience with Div. surveys.
 
Save
Reply Quote Like Like
#8 ·
(for the most part... there is a huge 4pt I was watching for 3 years that I may have shot to remove from the area if not for APR).
Click to expand...
I believe this above quote is a typical result of strictly using APR's to try and grow bigger antlered deer on public land. Do you guys have any evidence of the success APR's on public land in NJ?

How would you suggest getting around the "high-grading" factor associated with APR's?
 
#10 ·
Do you guys have any evidence of the success APR's on public land in NJ?
Click to expand...
One would assume it would be more sucsessful than shooting each and every deer with antlers no?

How would you suggest getting around the "high-grading" factor associated with APR's?
Click to expand...
Was that the real issue or was it crooked "Science" being perpitrated by the chair of the F+G council?
 
Save
Reply Quote Like Like
#11 ·
One would assume it would be more sucsessful than shooting each and every deer with antlers no?
Click to expand...
(Oh boy, I know I will regret this!) Yes, I would agree with that statement as it stands on it's own as a premise for killing fewer antlered deer, but APR's are being touted as a method for growing bigger racked bucks, not as a general protection against killing too many antlered deer.

Was that the real issue or was it crooked "Science" being perpitrated by the chair of the F+G council?
Click to expand...
I can't speak to any "perpetration's," but the "real issue" is the fact that by strictly using APR's you undoubtedly place a target on the back of every other "qualifying" antlered deer in the herd (of 3 pts or better) regardless of age.

So, I would argue, how are you then increasing the age structure of your antlered deer when you have now targeted any age class deer with more than 3 pts per antler? You will inevitably cause the harvest of the majority of the genetically superior 1 1/2, 2 1/2, 3 1/2...yr old bucks solely because they have 3 or more pts per side, and because they will be the (relatively) easier bucks to kill given their younger age. Whereas the inferior antlered deer (spikes, 3 pts and forkhorns) of the same age class, and older, would be off limits.
Again, this discussion is based on state land in NJ with it's density of hunters being a major factor.
 
#12 ·
So, I would argue, how are you then increasing the age structure of your antlered deer when you have now targeted any age class deer with more than 3 pts per antler?
Click to expand...
Isn't that exactly what you're having them do in YOUR management program yet saying to the participents this is how you'll create trophy bucks[eyeroll]
 
#13 ·
this aint rocket science only way antler restrictions will work is if its state wide, cause right now the bucks are still being killed but only tagged in other zones.

but im sure the change with the new call in tags will solve that............ [rofl][rofl]
 
#15 ·
Screw APR's send letters saying to LIMIT THE BUCK HARVEST, and only allow unlimited doe harvest in VERY small areas where its still needed. cap the doe harvest in all other areas.

2 Bucks , 4 does per year TOTAL . need more than that to eat GET A JOB
 
#16 ·
IMO the only thing the state should do is limit the # of buck tags available to each hunter. Why do you, as a hunter, need the state to tell you how big a buck has to be, in order for you to harvest it? Make it a personal choice to let the young ones walk. I don't know anyone who kills 6 mature bucks in a season. Be selective, police yourselves, and if you want meat, shoot A doe
 
Discussion starter · #18 ·
Well the program hasn't paid off in the zones its been implemented for several years now. With 6 bucks a year the APR don't help anything. I've been hunting APR zones for the last 10 years and to be honest I have not seen any benefit to the APR's.
Click to expand...
While I agree that the hunting certainly hasn't improved from my observations in those zones (in fact, it's gotten pretty crappy where I hunt), it seems the data from the Division shows there has been some pretty significant improvement in those zones somewhere.

Do you guys have any evidence of the success APR's on public land in NJ?
Click to expand...
They don't break the stats down to distinguish between private land and public land. In my experience, the hunting on public land is much worse now than it was when the study period started, however, this is the data they have from zones where APR's have been in place for several years:

Here are the facts of APR’s in those southern zones that were examined, and Data presented at the APR forums by the Division. This is directly from their data (page 3) and can be found on the website here: http://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/pdf/2010/apr_data_summary10.pdf
Now let’s look at each age class harvest for all the APR zones. These numbers are all
summarized in Table 1.

The average yearling harvest pre-APR was 1,325 bucks per year. The post-APR average yearling
harvest is 613 bucks per year for all the south APR zones.

The average 2.5 year old harvest pre-APR was 456 bucks per year; the post-APR average harvest
of 2.5 year olds is 486 bucks per year.

The average 3.5+ year old harvest pre-APR was 95 bucks per year. The post-APR average
harvest is 179 bucks per year.

On average, each year we save 712 yearling bucks from harvest, and gain 30 2.5 year old bucks
and 84 3.5+ year old bucks. In other words, we harvest 712 less yearling bucks but gain only
114 older age class bucks as a result of APR.
Click to expand...
What their data actually shows is that in the zones with APR’s, while the deer herd was dramatically decreasing (from approximately 200,000 statewide to 120,000 to 140,000), and the number of bucks in the woods dramatically decreasing as well, the number of bucks being taken in the 2.5 yr old and 3.5 yr old age classes, in the APR zones, increased, in spite of the overall herd reduction. In other words, the number of older age class bucks in the herd actually increased, bucking (pun intended) the trend of the herd reduction. That is an APR success.

I can promise you, the biggest reason the number of 1.5 yr old bucks being harvested has decreased so dramatically is not primarily because of APR’s but because the deer are just not there any longer in the numbers they were 10 to 12 years ago.
 
Discussion starter · #19 ·
Who should we write to if we think APRs should be banned state-wide?
Click to expand...
You can write the same people I suggested to write.

Why should one group of hunters be allowed to dictate what other hunters can and can’t shoot?
Click to expand...
When over 70 percent of the hunters in the zones affected wanted this, why should you be able to tell them they can't have it, when you don't even hunt there?

I agree APR's are not the preferred thing to do but you have to be realistic, and being realistic here means accepting the fact that the Division and F&G Council will never reduce the number of buck tags (the preferred choice to protect bucks) and are very reluctant to reduce season lengths or any bag limits (except the bow season may get reduced) so the only measure you are going to get to protect the antlered segment of the deer population is APR's. They are not perfect but they are the best we will ever do in NJ, at least with the current people running the show.
 
1 - 20 of 96 Posts
About this Discussion
95 Replies
32 Participants
Last post:
Nanook
New Jersey Hunters
posts
3M
members
61K
Since
2005
A forum community dedicated to New Jersey’s hunters and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, gear, troubleshooting, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more!
Full Forum Listing
Explore Our Forums
General Hunting Discussions Member Classifieds Fishing Field Testing and Evaluation NJ Firearms ID Card & Gun Permits