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Bloomberg Under Fire For Arizona Gun Show Sting

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#41 ·
(like on the street in NYC)
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Here's an angle most don't realize. NYC has very expensive auto insurance, as you might guess. Many residents claim residency illegally out-of-state, obtain an out-of-state driver license and registration via out-of-state relatives or friends. Now of course by default, they have an ID to purchase firearms "legally" from that state.

I agree, there will always be a flow of illegal firearms into criminal hands so long as there is a market. As soon as our legislators and media stop addressing the "gun problem" instead of the drug problem in Mexico and the gang problem in our cities, nothing will change. BTW, did you ever notice we don't hear from political candidates or special interest groups on "The War on Drugs", what happened did one side win? Want to stop the importation of cocaine? Nationally boycott coffee for a month, which is a drug too. There is no weapon greater than the U.S. dollar, don't let anyone tell you differently.

I think the terrible shooting in Arizona was a freak of nature, like lightning striking. This guy would've found some other way of causing destruction and putting himself on an imaginary pedestal if guns weren't an option.
 
Discussion starter · #42 ·
Then the person shouldn't be able to rent a table...
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Should he also not be able to sell a gun via newspaper or craigslist advertisement? Where does it end?

These large gun shows are heavily regulated. If a BATF agent see someone contantly renting tables and selling firearms he's going to get in trouble because it is more than a private sale.
 
#43 ·
Should he also not be able to sell a gun via newspaper or craigslist advertisement?
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Of Course not, but like we here in NJ have a permit, that it take 3 months to get is another story...

But anyone buying a gun needs to be checked out, weather it be one time(card) or every time you buy a gun(permit)...

If a BATF agent see someone contantly renting tables and selling firearms he's going to get in trouble because it is more than a private sale.
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I would hope that's that's the case...
 
#44 ·
Its not like mom and pop decide to sell their guns and rent a table to never return. Mostly the same people all the time make all the shows.....like a business.

Again, I am not opposed to NICS check at gun shows.
 
Discussion starter · #45 ·
Its not like mom and pop decide to sell their guns and rent a table to never return. Mostly the same people all the time make all the shows.....like a business.
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No, that's exactly what happens. If people are selling guns for a living then that is a business and they must have an FFL.

Or, you can do what NJ does and not allow guns to be sold at all at gunshows....

Do you know when the Brady bunch shows stats like "25% of the vendors at gun shows are unlicensed dealers" they are counting the hotdog and popcorn vendors, the Shamwow guy and the guy selling Ginsu knives or vacation timeshares?

Instead of going after .7% of the crime, shouldn't Bloomberg be cracking down on the other 99.3% for which HE is directly responsible?
 
#47 ·
Bloodtrails said:
Read the article above. Undisputed facts.
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Bullshit!

Many dispute Lott's, and his sometimes co-author's, "facts." He picks and chooses his data. He ignores the results of other studies. While there was no way to prove it because he "lost it," it sure seems he was caught making up a study. Scientific organizations, and some of his former employers in academia, said he uses junk science.

Asking convicts where they got their weapon ..... you think thats a reliable source of data??!! You know damn well it isn't.

Yet another person who has sold his integity to sell books to a targeted audience to enrich themselves. And, to get a paycheck from FOX News every month.

Why would it be "much easier" for someone to buy a gun on a street corner (every street corner in NYC you say)? Maybe for some dumb home-boy that will be in prison or the morgue soon, anyway. I live in Morris County, I can get on I-80 and be in the Essex County shitholes in no time and try to buy a gun. I may get robbed doing it ... maybe robbed and killed .... maybe get busted by the police a block away. Or, maybe I do get home, and have a gun that has already murdered 2 people.

Hell no. I'll go to a gun show and buy a nice, clean gun ... no questions asked, no records kept. Maybe I'll buy a few and sell some to some gangbangers with pockets full of cash.

A significant number of illegal guns are "diverted" to criminals via the non-FFL "occassional sellers" at gun shows. The question is ... what do we do about it? Do we find a way to increase NICS checks? Or, is that infringing on our Constitutional Right to own firearms, and we have to live with the problem?

But, having people like Ann Colter that use Lott's bullshit to insult other people's intelligence and integrity ... doesn't impress any of the people who will be making firearm regulations.

Thats what I think, anyway.
 
Discussion starter · #48 ·
Bullshit!

Many dispute Lott's, and his sometimes co-author's, "facts." He picks and chooses his data. He ignores the results of other studies. While there was no way to prove it because he "lost it," it sure seems he was caught making up a study. Scientific organizations, and some of his former employers in academia, said he uses junk science.
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Ok, in THE ABOVE ARTICLE, dispute his facts. But, use FACTS... Go ahead, try...


Hell no. I'll go to a gun show and buy a nice, clean gun ... no questions asked, no records kept. Maybe I'll buy a few and sell some to some gangbangers with pockets full of cash.
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You would be in the minority as less than .7% of guns recovered from crimes come from gunshows.

A significant number of illegal guns are "diverted" to criminals via the non-FFL "occassional sellers" at gun shows.
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Again, less that .7% is a "significant number"?
 
#49 ·
less than .7% of guns recovered from crimes come from gunshows
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I forgot to mention that you are talking about guns that were recovered in crimes. What about all the ones that were used in crimes and never recovered?

Why are you so against a simple and quick NICS check? This would deter criminals and take the burden off the vendors, renters and elderly couples that sell guns at shows.
 
Discussion starter · #50 ·
Why are you so against a simple and quick NICS check? This would deter criminals and take the burden off the vendors, renters and elderly couples that sell guns at shows.
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Because gun shows would be the first step. Next would be private sales and next a national registration database. Don't even attempt to say it won't happen...

Maybe we should have a national system like NJ has, with delays and private intrusion. We all know how effective that is against crime....

Also, NICS is not setup for public access.

I forgot to mention that you are talking about guns that were recovered in crimes. What about all the ones that were used in crimes and never recovered?
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Absolutely no way to measure that. However, I would suspect from the sampling of recovered guns it's roughly the same.

Again, .7% is not the real problem. It's a political game.
 
Discussion starter · #52 ·
If having NICS at shows saved just a few innocent lives it would be worth it, dont you agree?
Better safe than sorry.
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Nope.

Think of how many lives could be saved if we banned automobiles. Is it worth it?

Want to make a REAL dent in gun crime? Find out where the 99.3% of criminals are getting their guns and keep violent criminals locked up.
 
#53 ·
If having NICS at shows saved just a few innocent lives it would be worth it, dont you agree?
Better safe than sorry.
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This is the gun control mantra and frankly very worn out at this point in the life of gun grabbers.

I'm surpised you didn't write "It's for the children". Oh wait. You did.

...is not the problem unless it is your kid or wife.
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If criminals or their straw purchasers are stymied by NICS check at a gun show, they'll go elsewhere.

You don't think career criminals will be heading back to fulltime jobs or finishing up their undergraduate classes?
 
#58 ·
Nope

I am OK with making it more difficult.

Again....I am not opposed to NICS checks at gun shows.
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Not sure of the rationalization behind where the purchase was made.

If less than 1% of firearms bought at gun shows are used in violent crime, why are we focusing our energy in that direction and not at the source of where the 99% of the firearms are coming from?

Wouldn't that have a greater impact on reducing violent crime?

Would you feel better if a drunk driver killed someone if he legally purchased the alcohol at a liquor store or if he stole the booze out of someone's house?

I'm not following the logic.
 
#60 ·
I'm not following the logic.
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Same here. If someone uses a gun in a crime, that would make them a criminal. So regardless of where they purchased their gun, they are willing to commit crimes. That means that if they can't obtain one legally, they will be willing to obtain one illegally because they are criminals! We are focusing in the wrong place as usual while solving nothing and just spending tax dollars. Business as usual.
 
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loaded4bear
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