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NEED HELP – Broadhead Tuning Problems

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NJBookingAgent

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Problem: My broad heads are shooting tight groups, but consistently 2-3 to the right of my field points at 20 yards. The up and down impact is the same, just the left and right is off.

Here is my equipment setup:
Mathews Z7 Bow, 62lbs/27.5
Carbon Express Maxima Hunter 350 arrows, 28” length, 2” blazer vanes, right helical
G5 125 grain Montec Broad Heads
QAD drop away arrow rest

Here is what I have tried:
1) Arrow rest was aligned for center shot and paper tuned.
2) Bow was sighted in for field points at 20 yards – I am grouping 2” groups with field points.
3) Switched to broad heads, G5 Montec 125 grain, POI was low 1”, right 2-3”
4) Moved my rest up slightly, broadheads and field point impact same height.
5) Moved my rest left 1/16 inch, no change in impact difference between BH and FP.
6) Continued to move rest in 1/16 increments to left, still no change in 2-3” difference. Moved the rest a total of ¼ inch left of center shot.
7) Reset arrow rest to center shot, still 2-3 difference.
8) Went against conventional wisdom and moved arrow rest to RIGHT 1/16 off center shot, BH still shooting 2-3 to right of field points

I then figured my arrows might be over spined so here is what I did next:
1) Switched my arrows to Carbon Express Maxima Hunter 250 arrows (lighter spine), 27” length, 2” blazer vanes, right helical.
2) re zeroed in for center shot and was shooting 2” groups again at 20 yards with field points.
3 Switched to broad heads, G5 Montec 125 grain, POI was right 2-3” again.
4 Moved my rest left 1/16 inch, no change in impact difference between BH and FP.
5 Continued to move rest in 1/16 increments to left, still no change in 2-3” difference. Moved the rest a total of ¼ inch left of center shot again.

So, since lighter spine has same results, I switched the broadheads to see if that would change things.
1) Opened up a brand new box of 100 grain thunderheads and put them on the Maxima 250 arrows.
2) Reset my center shot
3) Field points dead on, BH 2-3” to right of field points again.
4) Moved my rest left 1/16 inch, no change in impact difference between BH and FP.
5) Continued to move rest in 1/16 increments to left, still no change in 2-3” difference. Moved the rest a total of ¼ inch left of center shot again.


I am lost here…don’t know what I am doing wrong or what it could be. Tonight, I am going to shoot my old bow (Darton Tempest Extreme) with the same arrows and broadheads used above to see if I get any different results with that bow.

Has anyone experienced this? Can anyone suggest something else for me to try?

Duane
 
#2 ·
Move your rest toward the field tips in VERY VERY small increments. When I mean small i mean like 1/16th or 1/32nd. Do this at 20 and then again at your furthest distance until fields and BH's are within atleast an 1 inch of each other.
 
#4 ·
Dave, sounds like he tried that already.

How many arrows are you shooting of each (fps and BHs) ?

Are they spin tested? (I'm going to assume yes, since they group very tightly, but have to ask)

You're not resighting after any of the shots right?

What puzzles me is that you never saw ANY difference in the distance between the groups, EVEN when you moved the rest the opposite way.

If you're happy with the groups, you may want to simply sight in for the broadheads.

You may also want to try this again at a further distance that you're still comfortable with. Say 30-40+....See if those adjustments do anything out there.

I HIGHLY doubt it has anything to do with a bent riser or cam lean, but you may want to check that out just to rule it out. I had a bow from the factory that had a bent riser and it was very difficult to tune it until I realized there was a problem. It was very similar to this problem, FP's and BH's shot tight groups, but I could not bring them together for the life of me.

I did not check your spine out, but one of the guys with a program might do that for you, just to rule that out for sure also. Because as you guessed, a stiff spine could cause a problem like this too.
 
#5 ·
Hey NJBA, I had the same problem last year and went through the same process as you did, to no avail. One thing that I did prior to testing my bh's last season was to change my bow hand grip slightly to one that the "pros" use. well, after making my self nuts, as you are, I finally decided to switch back to my old style of gripping the bow...eureka! that was it! It was a slight torque in my new bow grip that translated to a couple of inch difference in my POI compared to my fp's. The torque shows up much less with the fp's then with the bh's.
Just my experience, hope it helps.
 
#6 ·
Yeah I goofed on my post[wallmad]

This is just a poke..but try reducing your draw weight by like one turn and see what you get? It does sound very strange. But BH impacting right of FT indicate weak spine. Just a thought for you.
 
#7 ·
Hey NJBA, I had the same problem last year and went through the same process as you did, to no avail. One thing that I did prior to testing my bh's last season was to change my bow hand grip slightly to one that the "pros" use. well, after making my self nuts, as you are, I finally decided to switch back to my old style of gripping the bow...eureka! that was it! It was a slight torque in my new bow grip that translated to a couple of inch difference in my POI compared to my fp's. The torque shows up much less with the fp's then with the bh's.
Just my experience, hope it helps.
Click to expand...
We might have a winner...DING DING DING!

Pathman is absolutely right, bow hand torque will show up more with BH's than FP's....Basically BH's amplify or magnify any and every flaw, whether it be a tuning flaw, equipment flaw or form flaw.
 
Discussion starter · #8 ·
Matty,

I'm shooting 4 arrows eash time, two with BH and two with FP's.

No, I have not spin tested them.

No, Im not moving my sight, just the rest.

I did try at 30 yard distance at first, then moved in to 20 to make sure it wasnt my shots not being as good.

Its a brand new bow and I am staring to wonder if something might be defective like you mentioned?

Pathman - that could be it...this Mathews has a diffrent grip than my Darton and I might be torqueing it...I'll try something diifrent.

Dave, I am shooting to the right but when I checked the CE spine charts, I was at the bottom range for a 350 arrow (.337) so I thought I might be overspined and tried a weaker arrow, CE 250 (.417)but still shoots same. Maybe I should crank up or down the poundage 5 pounds and see what I get?
 
#9 ·
Ok, I would spin the BH arrows, while watching the BH to insert connection. Watch for wobble.

I really can't believe you'd have two arrows that are both misaligned the same exact way, causing them to plane the same exact way every time, but you have to systematically remove or eliminate any potential causes.


It still could be a bent riser or cam lean, but honestly, I'm going to lean more towards the Indian than the bow.

The Mathews grips are difficult to shoot well without torque, in my opinion they're too thick. So I wouldn't doubt you're simply used to a thinner Darton grip and just imparting some minor torque.

It still boggles my mind though that after rest adjustments you saw no difference. Thats the part that concerns me.

You can check the riser with a flat, level surface and a long level. Or level the bow in a vise and then run a level between top and bottom limbs. Or use a laser alignment tool to check the limbs and cams.

Hope you get it resolved.[up][up]
 
#10 ·
NJBA, one way to verify if it's a torque issue (which after reading your post makes me even more confident that torque is the issue)is to not change anything. Just sight in using your bh's only, then shoot your fp's. You should then see that the field points are now off. That would verify your torque issues which could be a result of your new grip.
 
#11 ·
Wait, I'm confused Pathman.

Regardless of what the issue is, if he doesn't change anything, and he sights in to the BH's, the FP's will now be off by 2-3" to the left. (bh's were right by 2-3", so if you sight them in to dead on, the fp's will be off the other way.

I do agree that it's most likely torque, but I don't see how that confirms it. Maybe I'm just confused.

Changing his hand position could confirm it. If he tries different hand positions. If that solves the problem, you'll either need to re-learn to hold the bow or find a new wood grip for the bow that fits your hand more comfortably like the Darton grip did.
 
Discussion starter · #12 ·
Changing his hand position could confirm it. If he tries different hand positions. If that solves the problem, you'll either need to re-learn to hold the bow or find a new wood grip for the bow that fits your hand more comfortably like the Darton grip did.
Click to expand...
Thats what Im gonna try when i get home from work...
 
#13 ·
Matty, you're not confused at all, you got it exactly correct!
If he changes nothing else and just adjusts his sights to match his torque issue and his bh flight, the bow will now be sighted in to those two items. That would mean that when he then shoots his field points, subsequent to adjusting his sights to match the BH's and the torque inparted by his grip, trhat the field points would now be off in the other direction as you stated. At that point his decision would be to ether change his grip or not be concerned with FP accuracy till after bow season. He can't have both shooting to the same POI when a torque issue is involved. He will beat this thing to death trying different configurations of shafts, points, etc,.
 
#14 ·
Guys torque is torque.if the bow is properly tuned those heads should fly the same.With that said I see you are shooting Montec.Fixed broadhead.I had a problem two years ago with shooting blazers and the fixed broadheads.I shot a doe with the Montec and it planed right and hit the shoulder.I still got her but they were off.I now shoot the duravanes low profile 3-d vanes and the Magnus Stinger.I had zero problem with planing.My field points hit the same as the broadhead.Point being that torque would make your field points also plane.I would try a different vane and maybe a 100 grain head instead of 125
 
#15 ·
The easy way although not exactly the right way is to just adjust your sights. If the broadheads are grouping if you move the sight and the sight only they will go dead center. There is no time for changing form and grip at this point. season starts in like two weeks.
 
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#16 ·
Not really Artie, as mentioned before by Pathman, anything and everything is magnified by fixed blade broadheads.

Torque may not be effecting the FP arrows, but when you screw on a BH and the bow is still being torqued slightly, the arrow is not leaving exactly square and ends up planing slightly. The FP won't catch air like the blades of a bh will, so they are much less effected by torque or tuning issues. Thats why BH tuning works so well.

I believe he is torquing the bow very consistently. In other words, a slight hand position change could make all the difference in the world.

Certain broadhead designs can be more forgiving or more closely match FP flight, but there's no reason you can't get fp's and any bh of the same grain weight to have the same or VERY close POI.

Unless it's found to be a bent riser, or leaning cams, (doubtful)....I see no need to change anything, except the position of the bow hand. If a hand position change is not comfortable, but fixes the problem, he can try any one of a number of custom grips.
 
#19 ·
Justmountit, you should know better than to challenge my opinion! LOL

Certain broadhead designs can be more forgiving or more closely match FP flight, but there's no reason you can't get fp's and any bh of the same grain weight to have the same or VERY close POI.
Click to expand...
You're absolutely right Matty...except if a torque issue in involved. Then you have what NJBA is in the midst of.
My advise would be for him to use a wrist sling (as jerseyhunter suggested) and leave all his fingers "off" the bow altogether and shoot his BH's. He needs to let the bow just jump forward in his hand and be caught by the sling. That will show him how much he's torquing the bow, even if he doesn't feel it, as is the case with a lot of shooters.
 
#20 ·
one other thing to check first.paper tune the bow.See if the broadhead is going straight thru paper.likw mention above slightly grip the bow let it rest in your hand.I shoot with my hand slightly open and let the sling rest on my hand.
 
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NJBookingAgent
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