If the state and those paid off council members want to raise our hunting licenses then we should demand quality deer management, none of this bull [no swearing please] they call deer management.
They Want To Raise Hunting Licenses, Then We Demand Quality Hunting
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Is this the BEAR group forum???
Examples??
The sportsman's candidates are voted in by sportsmen WHO SHOW UP. The most highly qualified council members happen to be sportsmen.
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14,753 Posts
Nobody said they are perfect but the premise behind the makup of the council is a very good system. Can you think of a better system?
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True, and doesn't the Head of The DEP, have the final say in the end? and doesn't the Council, vote on what anyone sends in letters asking ( can you lower the buck tags ) and adds pay more money for tags..
BHC on here you have been to voice of the PPL, You need to go to some of the meetings.. You could be Our Big Stick... (Teddy....Speak softly, but carry a big stick)
If you think about, They just signed a Death Warrant on every buck in NJ...."You have now entered New Poacher Jersey, The only State with no Deer"...
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You guys have got to be kidding me??? Attacking the Council like this, are you nuts? I can see it now, at the next Legislative hearing on how to change the makeup of the Council and add anti-hunters, Stu and Linda will provide transcripts from this forum to prove even hunters think it needs to be changed.
How can you say the Council doesn't listen to hunters? Many of the proposals listed were direct results of the what they were hearing from hunters. Oh, wait, I get it...if they don't do what YOU want, then they don't listen to "hunters"...like certain people are the only hunters in the state.
Come on guys, take a step back and look at what you are saying. The Council cannot please everyone, but they are trying to do what they think is best. The only thing I see that should be questioned is that they tend to give gun hunters too many concessions...but they are still hunters.
The proposals are not perfect, the Council is not perfect, I don't like the fact that they allow so many gun days and tags, but I still support them overall.
Keep calling for changes to the Council and you may just get your wish...just be careful what you wish for.
How can you say the Council doesn't listen to hunters? Many of the proposals listed were direct results of the what they were hearing from hunters. Oh, wait, I get it...if they don't do what YOU want, then they don't listen to "hunters"...like certain people are the only hunters in the state.
Come on guys, take a step back and look at what you are saying. The Council cannot please everyone, but they are trying to do what they think is best. The only thing I see that should be questioned is that they tend to give gun hunters too many concessions...but they are still hunters.
The proposals are not perfect, the Council is not perfect, I don't like the fact that they allow so many gun days and tags, but I still support them overall.
Keep calling for changes to the Council and you may just get your wish...just be careful what you wish for.
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14,753 Posts
He/she does now, due to a corrupt supreme court. It's not the way it was originally designed.
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14,753 Posts
Yup.
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20,976 Posts
If you payed $$$$ for a buck tag.
You can bet You will see a lot of harvesting of young bucks.
Just so guys didn't just throw there money in the wind by passing on every young buck you've seen.
You can bet they won't end the season without harvesting one of the young bucks sense it's already paid for.
Paul
You can bet You will see a lot of harvesting of young bucks.
Just so guys didn't just throw there money in the wind by passing on every young buck you've seen.
You can bet they won't end the season without harvesting one of the young bucks sense it's already paid for.
Paul
Its not the council members we need to worry about. Remember the courts granted the dep commissioner final say, and that position is a politically appointed position. Appointed and best qualified don't always go hand in hand. Appointed and Loyal on the other hand do seem to go together lately.
Anyone have the financial information on what is spent concerning biologists wages or research? I don't have these facts, but I'd be willing to bet the biologists don't get the best pay.
Dont get me wrong, I'm not saying the biologists aren't performing to the best of their abilities, but at a low wage rate and probably an even lower budget allocation for expenses, but we aren't getting the same level of biological research the corporate team over at Dole's Fruit farm is getting.
And although they are scientists that are expected to have a high standard for morals and ethics, job securities holds a little more weight than ethics especially at low pay rates.
If you think for the slightest second their isn't a level of shenanigans going on even at the smallest level you really don't understand the new jersey way of life.
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The only "shenanigans" I see are with respect to the overly generous gun season lengths and bag limits. If the Council was so beholden to Politics, as some seem to think, there would have been no bear hunt last year, and no Court fight to stop the bear hunt the previous year. The Council has been at odds with the Politicians on this one, and a few others, so take a deep breath and think before you make such accusations.
Corruption is a funny animal especially in a population density state such as NJ. With high costs of living, and tough competition its unavoidable.
Corruption is the game everyone wants to play but no one wants to own. It happens in some form from the family man using a PBA card to avoid a traffic summons to the mayor of a large city taking bribes to push planning board issues through, like it or not.
Corruption is the game everyone wants to play but no one wants to own. It happens in some form from the family man using a PBA card to avoid a traffic summons to the mayor of a large city taking bribes to push planning board issues through, like it or not.
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I never ever said anything derogatory about the council. I however resent that every time someone says something that's out of line with the thinking of the council there treated like there out of there minds or are a trader to the council and hunters in general.
Give me a brake . Were hunters not just followers of the council.and we have differences in our opinions and have every righto them.I will not censer my self out of fear of Stuie or Linda. I did not read one post that said we need to get rid of the council. All we said is common sense tells you that politics and other thing have influence other than just hunters.
Paul
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7,915 Posts
First off I never said the council did it, but they do get info for hunters and they put that info with info from the NJF&W...right....NOw they come up with this plan and vote on it and there is no one voting NA... Then it's on the books right?
I think the council is trying to do the best thing for NJ, but so far alot don't think so...
I do feel that if it's not changed, that NJ will be the biggest Poacher State in the USA, The herds will be Killed off. The Council should look over Missouri's Game Management plan, Texas F&W also has a good game management plan.. There is no reason why Jersey can't have P&Y/B&C or even World Record Deer.
No matter what the Council, NJF&W or the DEP do we will say they are wrong, if it's not what we wanted.. If they would have just droped 3 bucks off the lic's people are still going to go after 6 bucks and only tag the one thats P&Y/B&C....I do think getting rid of EAB/BAD was wrong, But I can now take a buck in velvet on opening day & still go after the DOEs to fill some freezers...
I think the council is trying to do the best thing for NJ, but so far alot don't think so...
I do feel that if it's not changed, that NJ will be the biggest Poacher State in the USA, The herds will be Killed off. The Council should look over Missouri's Game Management plan, Texas F&W also has a good game management plan.. There is no reason why Jersey can't have P&Y/B&C or even World Record Deer.
No matter what the Council, NJF&W or the DEP do we will say they are wrong, if it's not what we wanted.. If they would have just droped 3 bucks off the lic's people are still going to go after 6 bucks and only tag the one thats P&Y/B&C....I do think getting rid of EAB/BAD was wrong, But I can now take a buck in velvet on opening day & still go after the DOEs to fill some freezers...
I am not saying the volunteer elected councilmen are the ones corrupt. They are merely overseeing what is handed to them. I'm saying what is handed to them might not be the best information available or may be a weighted report. Wildlife research is based on statistical analysis. The scientists have to try and find a population sample that they can accurately forecast for the unknown based on assumptions and predictions. The studies they perform on the "population sample" is dependent on how much money they can spend researching the "population sample". There is also margins of error associated with these calcs, and assumptions made on the predictions. If you make a wrong prediction in the beginning of the calc, your assumptions in the future mean nada.
Also ponder this idea.
If there plan backfires and they don't make enough money to cover whatever expenses they require, where will the division get their money from? The division has taken green space loans out to buy WMA land. What happens if they cant make the payments? Do you think land would be sold before the state steps in and appropriates money from other budgets to F&W?
Again just some questions to ponder.
If there plan backfires and they don't make enough money to cover whatever expenses they require, where will the division get their money from? The division has taken green space loans out to buy WMA land. What happens if they cant make the payments? Do you think land would be sold before the state steps in and appropriates money from other budgets to F&W?
Again just some questions to ponder.
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I have had plenty of disagreements with the council. There is nothing wrong with that. But for someone to suggest someone is being "paid off" when they don't even get paid is just wrong. Most people on the council make huge sacrifices and give a ton of personal time away from their families for this volunteer position. I spoke to a council member last week who went to 5 meetings last week alone. It's like the parent who complains about their kids little league coach and barely even shows up for the games.
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5,250 Posts
Where i hunt its getting to the point where if i see a deer ist always the same group. Deer numbers are waaayyy down. Time to liit the doe kill anbd go AR state wide. Dont make me pay more though. Ill tell ya what. Ill just get my regular season license and shoot whatever i want regardless of the laws...thats what WILL HAPPEN. Im personally wont pay another $112 on buck tags. We already pay for a "permit" season and even thenw e are forced to shoot frigiin does. So now i need a permit to hunt during permit? Only reason we pay more to hunt permit is b/c its the rut. So i have to pay more to hunt the rut, then pay more to hunt a buck in the rut? Well [no swearing please] im not hunting for does[mad] This is pure b.s. anmd just doesnt add up.
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