Turn In Your Neighbor for $1000.00

GVS · Oct 28, 2009

Swiper, just for your education, and to prevent future false arrests of innocent gun owners, you can legally own a gun in NJ without having a pistol purchase permit or a carry permit or being "registered".

And you wonder why it's not a bad thing to send police officers into houses on a random anomomyous tips....

Exactly my point, so I'd like to know how Newark is defining these "illegal" guns.

bloodtrails · Oct 28, 2009

Exactly my point, so I'd like to know how Newark is defining these "illegal" guns.

The same way they define "illegal hollow point bullets" and "assault rifles".......

Stronski · Oct 28, 2009

First the problem with this state is that its run by morons.

I can speak on the state legislature as that is where I've had the most dialogue.

You have a handful of "gun guys" that own firearms, can talk firearms, shoot and did hunt at one time.

You have a larger group that goes with the flow, usually along party lines that has no education on firearms and firearm ownership.

There is a small group of impassioned legislators that want to rid the state of firearms for everyone.
(Weinberg and Corzine leading the charge.)

Second this program was not designed for law abiding citizens who legally possess a firearm. This is intended for the criminal element, who has no right to have a gun.

If you aint a criminal Don't worry about it.

Regardless of the intent of the program, ANYONE owning a firearm will be considered a criminal until proven otherwise. Do you really think that the police are going to stand there and go over each of your firearms and the matching paperwork?

Bullshit!

They all get confiscated and you have to prove that they are yours and If your missing paperwork on a particular gun, forget about getting it back. Expect a very long and costly procedure.

Prove your not a criminal. It'll cost you tens of thousands. As Lungbuster wrote...the burden of proof is on you.

Stronski · Oct 28, 2009

Another problem is the absence of hunters and firearm owners willing to educate their district legislators.

That is why gun control assemblymen, women, senators, Healy, attorney general and governor all parrot the same message they recieve from one person...Bryan Miller.

It's time to take this state back and you can start on November 3rd at the voting booth.

Swiper · Oct 28, 2009

o explain to me EXACTLY how they can tell where the gun was purchased from. How do you know they originated in a "southern state"? This database, as you explain it, only tells you where the gun was recovered, not where it was originally purchased. That is unless the guns somehow got back into circulation.....

It tells you were the gun was stolen from, not where the purchase was originated. Upon recovering a gun, a ATF tracer form is filled out, where I believe ATF does it old school, and track the serial number through the manufacturer to the dealer and then to the original owner. We have Task force officers assigned to them, and if a good one, like a straw purchase or something of that nature they'll comeback and tell us.

As I'm sure you know, ALL multiple gun purchased are flagged by NICS. The SAME NICS that NJ uses. What would be the advantage of buying a gun (or multiple) from one of these "gas station/gun stores" you speak of???

I dont work for ATF, not sure what happens after there flagged.

Swiper, just for your education, and to prevent future false arrests of innocent gun owners, you can legally own a gun in NJ without having a pistol purchase permit or a carry permit or being "registered".

And you wonder why it's not a bad thing to send police officers into houses on a random anomomyous tips....

COMPLICATED ANSWER, was the first words I wrote. Maybe you need to be educated on how to read.

Gentlemen Im done..you win , believe whatever makes you happy. This is my last post about this topic.
Godbless

ChrisM · Oct 29, 2009

I would like to know when they are having one of those "turn in your gun and recieve $100" deals. I have a couple of old guns that are broken and worthless I would like to take advantage of that

Booker will up your anti on that one....How about 200 per gun? In all seriousness, what are the restrictions on programs like this. Could I bring in a couple old beater shotguns and get 600 bucks and buy myself a new Savage Slug Gun?

Newark offering cash to get guns off the streets
By Sharon Adarlo/The Star-Ledger
October 27, 2009, 3:06PM

Amanda Brown/The Star-LedgerNewark Mayor Cory Booker discussing violence in the city at press conference in July 21.

NEWARK -- When Newark Detectives Raul Diaz and Donald Stabile arrive at a fatal shooting scene, they will sidestep the central investigation, leaving that to homicide detectives, and instead zero in on the gun.

In a deeper analysis than has been done previously, they will look at the weapon’s history, origin and who has used it -- all as part of a new, two-prong strategy that includes gun buy backs to reduce shooting violence in the city.

"Over the last three years, we have put a strong foundation for the results we have now," Newark Mayor Cory Booker said at a press conference today, where he announced the strategy with Police Director Garry McCarthy and officials from the Essex County Prosecutor’s Office and the Essex County Sheriff’s Office. "Now we are taking it to the next level."

In the weapons investigation, Diaz and Stabile, will examine each gun that comes into the police department’s possession, whether through a crime or confiscated during a search.

They will also team up with two assistant prosecutors, who will build cases for trial, said Stabile and Booker.

Through these deeper investigations, detectives will be better able to figure out gun trafficking patterns and potentially stop the flow of weapons into the city, McCarthy said. They will also identify crime-prone areas in the city and people who have a history of weapons violence.

McCarthy also added that the police department is forming a database with profiles on each gun confiscated. Backing up the investigators will be stiffer state penalties against people who use and illegally sell guns, Booker said.

"We will hold these people to a greater accountability," he said.

In addition to the weapons investigations, police and other law enforcement agencies in Essex County have partnered with several churches in the city to hold "Gun Amnesty Buyback" days starting Nov. 11 until Dec. 17. People can bring a weapon, no questions asked, to a clergy member and get around $200.

For the buy backs, the prosecutor’s office and the High Intensity Drug Trafficking Areas or HIDTA, a federal program, is providing $50,000, McCarthy said.

"This strategy will prevent future violence," Booker said.

Last year, Newark police took 374 guns off the street versus 347 the year before.

Rev. Jethro James of Paradise Baptist Church in Newark, who has volunteered to hold a gun buyback, said he already helps out church members and residents who want to get rid of weapons they find either in their attic or stashed at their home by a family member.

"If it was used in a crime, it won’t be used in another crime," he said.

The gun program is just one facet of a strategy McCarthy and Booker have implemented to reduce crime in the city. These include flooding high crime areas with police, installing gunshot detectors and cameras, and forming narcotics squads.

Shootings in the city are down 8 percent, from 236 last year versus 216 this year so far. However, murders are up, with 58 to date this year versus 53 last year.

Gun buybacks will be held at Emanuel Christian Church, 127 North 7th Street from Nov. 11-12; First Timothy Baptist Church, 215 Chancellor Avenue from Nov. 18 to 19; Paradise Baptist Church, 348-352 15th Avenue from Dec. 2 to 3; IBC-Calvary Baptist Church, 186 Thomas Street from Dec. 9 to 10; Independent Church of God, 51-53 Jones Street from Dec. 16 to 17.

bloodtrails · Oct 29, 2009

It tells you were the gun was stolen from, not where the purchase was originated. Upon recovering a gun, a ATF tracer form is filled out, where I believe ATF does it old school, and track the serial number through the manufacturer to the dealer and then to the original owner. We have Task force officers assigned to them, and if a good one, like a straw purchase or something of that nature they'll comeback and tell us.

So, what you're saying is you can trace the gun back to the original owner... So, tell me why guns come from "dealers down south" more than dealers from the "north"? "Down south" the dealers run the same NICS checks and keep the same records than dealers from the "north". What, exactly, would the advantage be of purchasing from a dealer in the south, as you stated??

like a straw purchase or something of that nature they'll comeback and tell us.

And if no information is found they are dropped from the statistics pool or labeled "from the south"....

Swiper · Oct 29, 2009

Bloodstrails, I really wasn't gonna post anymore on this topic but i found one with a two minute search on google http://www.city-data.com/forum/attachments/idaho/27168d1221240859-what-about-st-maries-id-acda13.jpg

So they do exist.. this one is in Idaho..but none the less they do exist.

So, what you're saying is you can trace the gun back to the original owner... So, tell me why guns come from "dealers down south" more than dealers from the "north"? "Down south" the dealers run the same NICS checks and keep the same records than dealers from the "north". What, exactly, would the advantage be of purchasing from a dealer in the south, as you stated??

Let me correct you again..I cant trace it ...the ATF traces it. As far as the reason.. I could only guess...I do not know, but Ill take a stab.

Florida - Photo ID and proof of residence.. Nics check and a 3 day wait.Buy as many guns as want.

Georgia - Photo ID and Nics check. Buy as many guns as you want.

South Carolina - South Carolina Driver Licsence or S.C. ID proof of residence...Nics check. Buy As many as you want.

NEW JERSEY - Pistol purchase permit takes at least 30 days. Usually 6-10 weeks. Then the nics check and only 1 gun a month.

Well you get the picture, Its easier down there.

And if no information is found they are dropped from the statistics pool or labeled "from the south"....

Dont Understand the question. Every gun recovered is traced back. I'm not a part of that investigation, so I cant explain to you how, in detail its done, or statistics, thats completed buy the ATF. Pretty sure they just dont label them ..."aw this one from the south", as you seem to put it.

Sir, obviously your intelligent guy, and it seems know you stuff when it comes to gun laws, but that does not change my experience, my knowledge, and my training when it comes to law enforcement. I know my s*** too.

I hope this ends this discussion, there are more important things to talk on this forum, like the rut and big bucks.

Whiskers · Oct 29, 2009

I don't know how they are going to trace a gun. When the NCICS check is called in they don't ask for a serial number, the caliber, or gauge. They ask is it a long gun, or a handgun.

They have to have some kind of starting point. They don't call every FFL in the country and give out serial numbers looking to find who the gun was sold to.

deadonshot · Oct 29, 2009

First, in New Jersey, if you possess a fiream, in the eyes of most local police, the state police, the Attorney General and the Governor, you are a criminal in the making if not one already.

You are doing something illegal until you can prove otherwise.

That's a fact.

Stronski- Can you please inform me where this fact is? I know we are under attack by anti's and feel the pressure each day, but I have been hunting 36 years and have NEVER been accused of doing something illegal. I am just curious where I can find this fact or is your opinoin the fact? I am not looking for an argument, but we need to stop making allegations based on emotions or we just give the anti's even more ammo. I am just a friendy outdoors man that wants to help preserve our rights, but it makes it harder when we state our opinions as a fact. We need to leep to the facts and leave the emotions out of it so we show we are BETTER then anti's and anyone else looking to restrict our freedoms.

Swiper · Oct 29, 2009

I don't know how they are going to trace a gun. When the NCICS check is called in they don't ask for a serial number, the caliber, or gauge. They ask is it a long gun, or a handgun.

They have to have some kind of starting point. They don't call every FFL in the country and give out serial numbers looking to find who the gun was sold to.

When ATF traces a gun. I believe the serial number is traced through the manufacturer...Manufacturers have to keep a log as to where that handgun or long gun was shipped (what dealer). They contact the dealer..get the buyer info.. Then contact the buyer to see if they had reported stolen.. and so on and so forth. Im sure its more detailed than that but thats basically it.

madeinuk · Oct 29, 2009

I have to say that I like Mayor Booker - we finally have a guy with a 'tan' in office that has got beyond that fact. He doesn't make every issue a race issue and I applaud that.

Regarding this, I agree with it because it is a step in the right direction - actively enforcing the existing laws not rhetoric and posturing (like most politicians) to get one more law on the books that no-one will enforce.

bloodtrails · Oct 30, 2009

Bloodstrails, I really wasn't gonna post anymore on this topic but i found one with a two minute search on google http://www.city-data.com/forum/attachments/idaho/27168d1221240859 ...

So they do exist.. this one is in Idaho..but none the less they do exist.

So what. It doesn't matter if the gun dealer is a Dicks Sporting goods or a gas station. They all still need to run background checks.

When ATF traces a gun. I believe the serial number is traced through the manufacturer...Manufacturers have to keep a log as to where that handgun or long gun was shipped (what dealer). They contact the dealer..get the buyer info.. Then contact the buyer to see if they had reported stolen.. and so on and so forth. Im sure its more detailed than that but thats basically it.

That is the only way to trace... Now, don't you think if they ran a trace and found someone who purchases 20 guns at a time and reports them all stolen some sort of red flag would go up? It does and it makes NO DIFFERENCE if the gun was purchased in "the North" or "the South".

Virginia for some time now has a 1 handgun a month law. Is is being repealed. Why? Because the law did absolutely nothing to stop criminals from purchasing guns illegally and statistics of Virginia purchased guns that were recovered did not drop at all.

Bottom line is criminals DO NOT purchase their guns legally. Period.

Whiskers · Oct 30, 2009

That is the only way to trace... Now, don't you think if they ran a trace and found someone who purchases 20 guns at a time and reports them all stolen some sort of red flag would go up? It does and it makes NO DIFFERENCE if the gun was purchased in "the North" or "the South".

[up]

GVS · Oct 30, 2009

I like the idea of turnning in a couple of old beaters for $200. I'll run out and buy a couple of used guns and double my money...

I also have a very old crossmen air handgun looks like a real fire arm, wonder if I'll get $200 for it!!

Swiper · Oct 30, 2009

So what. It doesn't matter if the gun dealer is a Dicks Sporting goods or a gas station. They all still need to run background checks.

That's not the point genius, I didn't say they don't do background checks... I stated that were gas stations that sold guns and your reply was..."Show me this gas station.... Sorry, it doesn't exist, although the media would like you to believe it does."
You implied that was misinformed or lying ...when in fact you are the misinformed one.. or you knew they existed and lied to protect your fanatical view.

That is the only way to trace... Now, don't you think if they ran a trace and found someone who purchases 20 guns at a time and reports them all stolen some sort of red flag would go up? It does and it makes NO DIFFERENCE if the gun was purchased in "the North" or "the South".

Its not a red flag...a straw purchase violates Title 18, United States Code, Sections 922(a)(6) and 924(a)(2), and Title 18, United States Code, Section 2.

THE DIFFERENCE is you cannot purchase twenty handguns in New Jersey at one time. Its like beating a dead horse with you....you just don't get it.

kmtpr · Oct 30, 2009

How would a neighbor know if your guns are legal or illegal? Legal gun owners abide by gun laws, criminals do NOT. Couldn't that $1K, really go towards purchasing an illegal gun? The caller can remain anonymous with no questions asked, Mayor Booker stated. Sounds like a good law, in theory, but makes no sense at all, in reality. [eyeroll]

Stronski · Oct 30, 2009

Stronski- Can you please inform me where this fact is? I know we are under attack by anti's and feel the pressure each day, but I have been hunting 36 years and have NEVER been accused of doing something illegal. I am just curious where I can find this fact or is your opinoin the fact? I am not looking for an argument, but we need to stop making allegations based on emotions or we just give the anti's even more ammo. I am just a friendy outdoors man that wants to help preserve our rights, but it makes it harder when we state our opinions as a fact. We need to leep to the facts and leave the emotions out of it so we show we are BETTER then anti's and anyone else looking to restrict our freedoms.

I'm not understanding your question or what you want me to answer.

bloodtrails · Oct 30, 2009

THE DIFFERENCE is you cannot purchase twenty handguns in New Jersey at one time. Its like beating a dead horse with you....you just don't get it.

Again, like all too many NJ LEOs, show your ignorance of the law. You have always been able to (and can until January) buy 20 or as many handguns as you want in NJ at once. You just need a permit for each. ($2.00)

but you can walk into a gun store and by these Jenning and brycos for 40 bucks each. Thats fact.

Isn't it a fact that you can buy these SAME guns in NJ??

bloodtrails · Oct 30, 2009

That's not the point genius, I didn't say they don't do background checks... I stated that were gas stations that sold guns and your reply was..."Show me this gas station.... Sorry, it doesn't exist, although the media would like you to believe it does."
You implied that was misinformed or lying ...when in fact you are the misinformed one.. or you knew they existed and lied to protect your fanatical view.

Here is your original quote:

There bought in the South were somebody can walk into a gas station and pick up 20 Jenkins shits guns for 40 bucks each, there called straw Purchasers. This is where the problem lies. Claim them stolen two weeks later and some how they end up here.

You implied that there are gas stations in "the south" that sell boxes of cheap guns to people that will buy them, sell them and report them stolen. What I am showing you is there is NO DIFFERENCE in the background checks that have to be completed by the dealers in NJ or "the south".

Using, what you described as some magical database of stolen guns, you would think that these "gas stations" would be shut down and exposed. It is, in fact, not true. Any FFL that sold guns in this fashion would quickly be shut down by the BATF. NJ or "the south"....

Turn In Your Neighbor for $1000.00

GVS

bloodtrails

Stronski

Stronski

Swiper

ChrisM

bloodtrails

Swiper

Whiskers

deadonshot

Swiper

madeinuk

bloodtrails

Whiskers

GVS

Swiper

kmtpr

Stronski

bloodtrails

bloodtrails

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