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Discussion Starter #1
I'm not trying to stir up more (edit). But I Never had the chance to say thank you to all you guys who came to my defense. I think all these shows on TV put to much on trophy hunting and forgot what hunting was all about.I found some thing that describe hunting. These are not my words but I do belive in what they stand for. And for people to say "I'm glad I'm not hunting where you are" is bull(edit). I have 8,10,6,5,4,3,spikes and a few does under my belt. I was taught to only kill bucks before this state made all there QMD's And EAB. I have been hunting for 30 years of my 35 years of life. I love tred barta because he says "I'm gonna do it my way". Any way here is what I think hunting is all about. Not the size but what we all have in common.

What Makes a Hunt? What Makes a Hunter?



An attempt has been made to define hunting in the words of thoughtful writers and philosophers. In each case, they reached back to ancient times when man was simply a part of the larger natural community - when hunting was a way of life. They describe modern hunters as maintaining that connection.

The importance of the hunt itself - and its natural outcome, the death of an animal - was discussed. The necessary approach required by hunters to fully participate in hunting was identified by Ortega: "one does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills to have hunted." That there is no "one factor that motivates all hunters to hunt or even that motivates one hunter on each hunt." was set out as a premise by Ann Causey. Yet, the evolutionary heritage of hunting is celebrated by all hunters. Their desire - their need to have millennia-old experiences releases them temporarily from stresses of modern life and provides communication lines with family and friends.

Hunters possess the knowledge and skills to turn the world from a path of certain destruction to one where humans live in peace with nature rather than constantly being at war with her. Hunters know their place in the natural community and can provide a bridge so that others may know it too.

"It is not essential to the hunt that it be successful. On the contrary, if the hunter's efforts were always and inevitably successful it would not be the effort we call hunting, it would be something else. ... The beauty of hunting lies in the fact that it is always problematic. ... Doubtless, man opens this margin (ecological distance) to the beast deliberately and of his own free will. He could annihilate quickly and easily most animal species, or at least precisely those he delights in hunting. ... There is, then, in the hunt as a sport a supremely free renunciation by man of the supremacy of his humanity." (Ortega 1942: 57)

Ortega argues that most all the things that man does are the means to an end - man works, expends energy, to achieve or get something. He then says: "But in hunting as a sport this order of means and end is reversed. To the sportsman the death of the game is not what interests him; that is not his purpose. What interests him is everything that he had to do to achieve that death - that is, the hunt. (Ortega 1942: 110)

He continues this discussion of the death of an animal: "Death is essential because without it there is no authentic hunting: the killing of the animal is the natural end of the hunt and that of hunting itself, not the hunter. ... To sum up, one does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in order to have hunted."
 

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WOW man you blew me away on this one. Too deep for me. I don't even understand half the words, but you sure have inspired me.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I think it all comes down to the last line.

To sum up, one does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in order to have hunted."
 

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What a post. It is very thought provoking. It is true, very true.
 

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"It is not essential to the hunt that it be successful. On the contrary, if the hunter's efforts were always and inevitably successful it would not be the effort we call hunting, it would be something else. ... The beauty of hunting lies in the fact that it is always problematic. ... Doubtless, man opens this margin (ecological distance) to the beast deliberately and of his own free will. He could annihilate quickly and easily most animal species, or at least precisely those he delights in hunting. ... There is, then, in the hunt as a sport a supremely free renunciation by man of the supremacy of his humanity." (Ortega 1942: 57)"

I especially enjoyed the above quote.

Ant
 

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I dont have time to read the whole thing now, but from the opening, I know this is directed at me.

Luknikk, I apologize if my comments upset you this deeply. That was not my intentions. However I was trying to open your eyes to the fact you need to shoot does.

You've made comments before that you dont like to shoot does. So this leaves only one way to earn your buck. Shoot young bucks with sub-legal antlers (or "antlerless bucks}]

Thats not what the state is asking us to do, they want us to take female deer, they only make those other deer legal because it can be hard to tell.

When you shot your BB early this year, I told you it happens to everyone, hell Ive done it by accident, infact I dont think I know a hunter who hasnt. When you shot the spike, I didnt give you crap like the other guys, now when you shot this "BB" for EAB, I looked at it, and just thought to myself, what is he doing to the herd where he hunts? I thought about your comments on shooting does, thought about all the does you talked about seeing but never shot, and realized you are waiting for young bucks to fill your EAB.

I think your a nice guy Luknikk, and you have a great family, but you're views on wildlife management are incorrect. Shooting a few does would be a lot better than taking all these young bucks.

Im only telling you for the benefit of the woods you hunt. And the other hunters who have to share those woods.

And before anyone makes me out to be the bad guy, I have no problem with the size of bucks people shoot. If thats the buck they want to shoot with their "buck tag", thats fine. But lets not start an unlimited "anlterless buck" season.[sad]

Well, now Im late for work......damn this site!:eek:
 

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Discussion Starter #11
It's not directed at one person,Not at all. It's directed to the whole. We all share a common ground with one goal in mind. To be able to fill are tags. Yeah sure I want the big boys,we all do. I missed a 6 pt earlier and needed a antlerless deer for my eab. The reason why I never hunted a EAB before was because of this. I hate being in the woods not having the choice to shoot what I want when I want. I'm all for shooting doe's,I know the heard needs to be thinned.I missed a doe and hit one with no luck in finding her. and that would have counted for my BAD. And I know of a few shooters in the woods that are gonna start showing themselves,and the only way I'm gonna be out is if I could shoot one with my permit. Now thanks to the small sacrafice with one little buck, It will happen. Then come DEC,Jan,Feb I could take all the does I want.
 

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And I know of a few shooters in the woods that are gonna start showing themselves,and the only way I'm gonna be out is if I could shoot one with my permit. Now thanks to the small sacrafice with one little buck, It will happen. Then come DEC,Jan,Feb I could take all the does I want.
[up] I agree.
 

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Now thanks to the small sacrafice with one little buck, It will happen.
I know the regulations say it is a legal deer, but that is not what they really want you to do, shoot a small buck to fulfill your EAB.
 

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well im not one who likes controversy, but like matty said a lot of times YOU CANT TELL wether its a BB or not. now why dont we all meet up, have coffee, and go hunting. or something like that.
 

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Here's the deal: It's legal, ethical, and that's the way he wants to hunt his land. You hunt your way, let him hunt his. If Luk is on public land chances are that those deer would be taken during permit shotgun or muzzleloader anyway.

The state could care less about antler size. What their goal is in the EAB areas is herd reduction. Yes, taking does will accomplish this quicker but taking a BB still reduces the herd.

If hunting in NJ is ever stopped, it won't be because of the anti's. It will be because infighting among our ranks.
 

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Last post....In archery season the deer have to be close to get a shot, if you can't tell that it has 2 inches spikes or small bumps, then you shouldnt be hunting!!! I know I will get crap for this, but it is true. His first deer for eab was a spike, and i'll tell you that was very ballsy to take that deer, cause I would have thought for SURE it was over 3 inches!!!
 
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There you go, some guys are still pushing there views on others, It just goes to show and proves my point, that certain people can voice there views no matter what, but others get there posts deleted. It boils down to this: JUST BE HAPPY FOR EVERY HUNTER FOR HARVESTING WHATEVER DEER THEY GET.......
 

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Very Nicely done

One mans/womans Trophy, Should never be put down. A Sport like hunting is our own gift to nature.

For Everyone that thinks they are a great hunter and thinks they know everything. Then tell me who Wrote that Quote I just posted.
 
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