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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Im in the market for a scope for a savage ML with a Pac-nor barrel (I know smokeless isnt legal in NJ, I have a few and just use them for range fun at this time, although they ARE all black/substitute capable) I have always been a leupold guy, and I want something in the 3-12/4-15 power range. I was seriously considering a zeiss, but at about double the price of a leupold 3(or better) are they really worth the extra expense? Can you really justify the jump from abt $600 to $1200+ for a zeiss, or swarofski? I know for a fact that Leupold is a good quality optic, with good aftermarket customer support. But it just hasnt been proven to me yet that its worth that extra expense, and at this point, im leaning heavily back towards leupold. That extra 5-600 means another addition to the gun safe or some other wish list item. So, for those of you that have those ultra high end optics, are you happy overall with your decision? would you do it over again?
 

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You can get a Zeiss Conquest for $600 all day long. I have two of them and also a Leupold VX-iii. I greatly prefer the Zeiss. Much brighter, easier to adjust, and tracks and holds zero perfectly. The Zeiss is light, too.

I have a Sightron Big Sky 6-24x42 with rurret knobs that is clear, easy to adjust, and good eye relief and the best thing.....AO adjustment. I'd put the Sightron almost right up there with the Zeiss. Both are far superior to the Leupold in my book.
 

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Cameraland that advertises on here runs weekly specials on top end scopes. Hard to find a better deal then their specials.
 

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I have 2 Leupolds. One VX3 on my shotgun 3.5-10 X50mm. The other VX3L is on my custom Remington 700 in .338. That one is 4X14X50mm. I love the VX3 and it travels very well. I also have the Leupold detatchable mounts, so you could take it off when you travel and pop it back on when you reach your destination.
 

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Here is a link to swfa.com for the Zeiss Conquest page: SWFA Riflescopes Zeiss Rifle Scopes Zeiss Conquest Rifle Scopes

Now it is my understanding that the Conquest (Made in USA) has been discontinued for the Zeiss Terra series. Now they still make a Conquest series, but a much more expensive one. The Conquest HD5 is a nice series. I have been looking at the 3-15x42mm, just have a lot of other places that need the attention for that much money.

Now I know it is a much cheaper scope, but the Redfield Revolution series has pleasantly surprised me. I have one on my T/C Pro Hunter muzzy. And it is made my Leupold in the great USA.
 

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I own a WEST GERMAN made ZEISS on my SAKO and it's bright/clear. On all my other firearms I have Leupolds VX-II and VX-III, they have served me well and are clear and bright as well. The CS of Leupold is second to none. To me, I would go with Leupold, but either way you can't go wrong. The Terra seris from Zeiss to me isn't worth the money now that they make them China
 

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I've owned/used most of the higher-end scope at one time or other. Is there a difference between them and a quality mid-range scope?
About 95% of the time, the difference is not worth the money. But 5% of the time, the difference is worth everything.

I was kinda in the same boat, and went with a VX-2 in 3x9 for a ML. For the way that I use it (mostly still hunting), and the range that I would shoot a ML (no more than 200-250 yds), I couldn't justify the cost of a better scope.
If I had to do it again, I would do the very same thing.
 

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Kenny Jarrett recommends Meopta Meostar and Mcwhorter recommends Zeiss, Meopta, Swaro, Schmitt and Bender, and Night Force. When I had my Mcwhorter made, they told me that the Zeiss Conquest was the best scope for the money and that it compared with their higher end recommendations. Since they guarantee their rifles to shoot under 0.5 MOA, I took their advice seriously. My rig shoots half that all day long.

I almost bought a Leupold FX-3 for silhouettes but went for the Weaver T-36 instead. The Weaver is very good on all counts but the little tiny cross hair is a little hard to see with old eyes. I think I made a mistake not getting the FX-3
 

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I've owned/used most of the higher-end scope at one time or other. Is there a difference between them and a quality mid-range scope?
About 95% of the time, the difference is not worth the money. But 5% of the time, the difference is worth everything.

I was kinda in the same boat, and went with a VX-2 in 3x9 for a ML. For the way that I use it (mostly still hunting), and the range that I would shoot a ML (no more than 200-250 yds), I couldn't justify the cost of a better scope.
If I had to do it again, I would do the very same thing.

I agree ,, for New Jersey shotguns and ML's but when it's on a rifle when I'm away on a hunt I put on the best I can afford.
 

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I put a Leupold 4.5x14 x50 VX-L with the CDS system on my custom 25.06. Had the turret set up for 115 Berger VLD's, at 3150fps. When I set the Zero at 100 yds, you can range what you are shooting at and adjust the turret to that range. It is right on out to 400 yds, which is the furthest I have shot with it. Off a rest of course. I do have a few Zeiss Conquests, just put a 3x9x50 on my Savage 220. Very good glass. Spend as much as you can for a scope, when you put all that money into a nice gun and a out of state hunt, why skimp on a scope.
 

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I own Zeiss and leupold. Zeiss is way better glass.

But for NJ hunting I would not buy zeiss.

I only have zeiss on my rifles. I use leupold and Nikon on everything else.

Why pay money for a 1" moa or less rifle and not put the best glass you can afford on it? Especially if you are spending money to travel and hunt.

Now a muzzle loader.... Leupold or Nikon.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I have probably at least 12-15 leupold scopes now, and have traveled with them through most of the country at different times. they have never failed me yet, and I consider them among the best out there. I have looked through store demos of zeiss, and swarovski, and in store conditions, I really just cant see any great difference. I know the real test is dawn and dusk low light conditions in the field. Im really just looking for a long range target range gun, (namely at the moment, Savage ML with aftermarket barrels in 40&45 cal, easily 600yard gun)

Midwest, I got the barrels on a deal through a group buy on dougs message board forums. They are Pac-nor barrels I got both 40, and 45 cal. The 40 as of yet is still unused. they both came prefit for savage breech plugs, so i ordered several and their vent liners to fit. the barrels are just threaded into the action, I can interchange them myself, you just add a primer, screw the barrel in to set the proper headspacing and set the locknut. I have a leupold ultimate slam on it now, but wanted to mount something better, and try my hand to at least 300 yards + 300 is abt the limit of the ranges around here, but sooner or later id like to try much farther. I have been pretty deep into muzzleloaders for quite a while. (went through a phase of traditional style, but now its mostly modern inline) ive all but given up on my centerfire rifles as i now have a ML to cover any need. Im pretty new to the smokeless and have just started to scratch the surface of the rifles potential. when properly loaded and left to cool between shots. the gun will easily outperform my abilities and can really stack them in 1 hole as far as any range around. I have good days and bad, but i get dissapointed in anything much over an inch at 2-300. Im using sabots still, but im headed for sabotless next, especially if I ever get to the .40 cal. these modern smokeless never cease to amaze me in their range ability. when coupled with the right barrel/loads, they can match/exceed most any centerfire. almost like a bench rifle with a cutom handload for every shot. So, Bottom line. Im really just looking for a long range scope, that will, in all probability only ever get used for at the range fun, and this particular gun will probably never get taken afield for hunting. I have heard good reviews on meopta and several other brands, but I tend to take most of those reviews with a grain of salt, as bias tends to prevail on most due to factory sponsorship, or just a good word in exchange for a free review item, not to be returned later. Id rather hear from guides, or people with fatter wallets than mine who have a few to compare and have been on safari, or afield testing in real world environments. the technology in everything today is jumping forward in leaps and bounds.
 

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Arne,if your going to get into full blown loads with your smokeless ML, make sure you get yourself a robust scope with a good guaranty.I blew a 3X12 Stiener and a German made Zeiss with my Savage ML with the 50 cal. barrel, they are know to be hard on scopes, especially if your running the faster burning powders.Thats why a lot of guys run duplex loads with a small charge of a fast powder under bigger charge of slow burning powder.Right now I have a 5.5 X 22 on my custom Badbull SML shooting 140gr. of IMR 4350 under a full formed 300gr. Parker Match Hunter that's doing 3100fps out the barrel.Hoping to push out to 500 yrds. before I leave for an Elk hunt next fall.So far the scope has held up very well .Quality glass is well worth the investment,you'll have it for the rest of your life if you take care of it.
 

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Sounds like you plan on doing long range precision shooting with your ML.
If that's the case, then there really is no reason to play around with the lesser quality scopes. S&B PM II would be about the only one that I would consider. Why would you risk worrying about your scope holding you back?
 
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