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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
According to F&W’s harvest data from the zones with ARs:

The number of older bucks does NOT increase.

The 2.5 yr old and 3.5+ yr old segments show an increase as a percentage of total antlered harvest. It should be noted that the percentage of older age class bucks harvested increases purely as a response to the decline in the yearling segment of the harvest, even though the actual number of older age class bucks harvested does not increase.
The buck harvest goes down 31%.

After the institution of APR, the combined average buck harvest per year declined 31%. . . . decline in the antlered harvest due to APR regulations
The use of APR in New Jersey is primarily a social issue, not biological.
Based on hunter dissatisfaction with APR in DMZ 6, the Council deleted this DMZ from the APR program in 2005.
In summary, with antler restrictions you will shoot a lot less bucks but you won’t see an increase in the number of older or bigger bucks.

Quite simply, the buck harvest data from zones with ARs shows that Antler Restrictions don’t work.
 

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Based on hunter dissatisfaction with APR in DMZ 6, the Council deleted this DMZ from the APR program in 2005.
Why can't they extend this to zone 3 which is on the north side of rt 23? It makes no sense that a deer that is shootable in one zone can merely cross a road and not be shootable
 

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hmmm interesting. Seems like anti math though. If 4 guys go out and shoot 4 spikes there is 4 less bucks. If 4 guys go out and one guy kills an older buck but the other 3 don't harvest bucks that year in my thinking there is 3 more bucks for next year plus the fawn that are coming up from the spring birth for next year. What am i missing here? Kill less small bucks see more bigger bucks and an influx in small "illegal bucks"
 

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wait......what???? you said:

"In summary, with antler restrictions you will shoot a lot less bucks but you won’t see an increase in the number of older or bigger bucks."

So, all the bucks that DONT get shot, die on thier own? or they stop aging? How do they NOT get older if they make it thru hunting season? getting 'bigger' depends on a lot of factors like food, genes, etc. but, barring genetic issues or a severe food shortage, I dont see how they wouldnt age and Im sure a lot of them WOULD get bigger.
 

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I agree with horcgal, the first post is BS. If you dont shoot them they will get older! Antler restrictions are a great managment tool used in most big buck states; mainly because 90% of your hunting public cant, wont, or dont care to learn how to age a deer by looking at it! Antler restriction should be addopted in every zone if i had my way...

there is no doubt that NEw Jersey can be the next Illonois!
 

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In summary, with antler restrictions you will shoot a lot less bucks but you won’t see an increase in the number of older or bigger bucks.

Quite simply, the buck harvest data from zones with ARs shows that Antler Restrictions don’t work.
I read their summery and spoke to the supervising biologist of that study a few years ago also spoke to Geo. Howard about it and my conclusion about the "Study" was anyone with any knowledge of "Studys" or the world of funded reasearch could kick many big holes in said study.
I will go so far as to also say it may have been designed to spacificly discredit APR's more than an honest and well thought out "Study" normaly would.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Seems like anti math though. If 4 guys go out and shoot 4 spikes there is 4 less bucks. If 4 guys go out and one guy kills an older buck but the other 3 don't harvest bucks that year in my thinking there is 3 more bucks for next year plus the fawn that are coming up from the spring birth for next year. What am i missing here?
There are 2 causes for this. First, natural buck mortality rates are quite high. Second, states that have implemented ARs in the past have found that a large portion of young bucks are killed illegally and not reported. In some cases the illegal kill exceeded the legal harvest. Many states that have used ARs in the past have stopped the practice.
 

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IMO... And its just an opinion... Maybe the bucks in those zones get hit by cars during the rut. I drive a lot and all over NY and NJ... The majority of the deer I see hit are bucks. That would be one reason why you don't see a lot more older bucks in those zones... No.
 

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I think you guys are missing something in your interpretation of the line; "even though the actual number of older age class bucks harvested does not increase."

It states that the "harvest" does not increase, it doesn't say that the population demographic does not increase. It may be a case of the older bucks now being harder to kill.

In general, APR's will target your genetically superior yearling bucks(1 1/2 yr olds). Yes, it will protect the younger bucks in the herd, but the majority will be the genetically inferior bucks with less points than the APR calls for. This will leave you with a majority of spikes. three and four point racks. This is not to say that they will not grow a better rack in a year or two, but over that time there's a better chance for them to get killed in late season as sheds.
 

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And... he may be just a spike this year... but his daddy may have been that big boy let him go another year or so and see what he grows up to be, he might even have a chance to pass on nice traits (especially if big boy gets sent to the freezer and wall). If he grows some and shows a not so great gene pool, he can go in the freezer, wont know until he developes past a spike.



I can see the "family" traits of the suburban deer that live in the small woodlot(s) behind my house, one nice, long tine, good mass side...the other side= stubby, tight, whimpy. Even on the older bucks, some are frikin huge (look like damn elk...well except for the de-de-dee racks)
 

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i think we should be a one buck per hunter state, for any season, we get one buck.

i do not like the fact that we get told yet again what we can do as the antler restriction does. It is not fair as some of us can get out 50 times a year, and maybe some 5 times. now why cant i shoot a spike if i want since it could be the last time im going to be out.

if we were allowed one buck, all season, this itself would create more hunters to be passive. not, well i will shoot this one now cause i can shoot another one in two weeks.

if we were allowed just one buck, more hunters would be selective, and i believe the younger ones would get more of a chance. secondly, just reducing the number the number of bucks taken in itself would help.

so if 4 guys go out, maybe not all 4 will get a buck. because if the thought that this is their only buck, they may not all choose to shoot that spike. and if they do, they are done for the season.
 

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Of that's the conclusion of the study then the Obama admin did the math. [down]
 

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The only thing antler restrictions do is protect bucks with inferior genetics. Lke everyone else is saying, the number of bucks you can take should be regulated. If hunters can only take 2 each year, theyll choose wisely when they decide to shoot.
 

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so if 4 guys go out, maybe not all 4 will get a buck. because if the thought that this is their only buck, they may not all choose to shoot that spike. and if they do, they are done for the season.
Or maybe out of those 4 guys, one guy gets six bucks and the others get none. Give the other guys a chance to get one too.
 
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