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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is a buck I got on my trail cam in zone 3. He looks like a mature, malnourished career spike.



While the 6 and 8 pointers are being shot this deer gets to breed does and spread his genes.



In my opinion the 3 point rule should be eliminated during 6 day or "doe" day in zone 3 to cull deer like these, otherwise they may be shot during winter bow only if they drop their antlers (before or after being shot). Every magazine and arm chair hunter knows you have to eliminate the "management" deer to improve QDM. Right?
 

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wrong answer i wouldnt shoot that buck he looks like he has potential in a couple yrs ..thats a solid 1 yr old....listen to ducati he is correct
 

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He looks like a mature, malnourished career spike.
I would have to disagree he looks like a typical 11/2year old jersey buck.Many studies have been done on the" once a spike always a spike theory",you would be surprised what most grow into if given the chance.
 

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I would guess late born and no acorns last fall left him thin but he survived. Bet he improves a lot next season. I like the three point rule and don't see a reason to eliminate during 6 day[down] Like you said you'll get your chance in Jan/Feb when he drops his rack if your so inclined:(
 

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we had a similar deer where we hunt in Zone 3. we saw it for 4 years it was always a spike we called him the texas longhorn he had real wide thick horns but never more than a spike. someone shot him after he lost his spikes. last year or so I've been told[ninja]
 

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What makes you believe he's a "malnourished, mature buck"?

Also, why should they lift the 3 point rule ONLY during 6 day?

I'm not going to comment on the effectiveness of using the 3 point rule for managing the quality of bucks. But, I don't believe you're looking at a malnourished mature buck.

That looks to me like a yearling buck that has not yet received good nutrition.
 

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There is nothing mature about that deer.

That looks to me like a yearling buck that has not yet received good nutrition.
I'm going to have to agree.

Keep in mind, its only a trail camera photo. He may not even be as "mal-nurished" as some think...Let him walk.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
What makes you believe he's a "malnourished, mature buck"?
39 years of deer hunting experience.

Look at his ribs, backbone and shoulders. Look at his ears, snout lenght and antler bases. I shot a 165 lb (dressed) spike in NY a few years back that had bases larger than any racked buck I shot. He was 3 years old.

This deer will amount to nothing.

Also, why should they lift the 3 point rule ONLY during 6 day?
Because of limited hunting time. Same reason as 1 permit shotgun day. Or 1 QDM buck and one 3"minimum buck.
 

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39 years of deer hunting experience.
Great! Then you can share with us what to look for, that shows us it's a mature, malnourished deer!

So how can you tell?
 

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His neck is thin. His shoulders aren't defined. His snout isn't rounded. A mature bucks neck kind of dissapears into it's shoulders. This is a typical 1.5 year old buck. Ed you have twice the hunting experience that I do but I disagree with you on this one. This is a 1.5 year old buck and he's got lots of growing to do. Here's a pic of a buck from one of my farms that I gave a chance but he never ammounted to anything. I have one of his sheds. This is what a mature 5 year old plus deer looks like.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
someone shot him after he lost his spikes.
Or was it the other way around?[hihi]

dont know,wouldnt shoot him reguardless of his age.
Neither would I. I sure wouldnt want to eat him. I shot a six pointer during bow season a few year back in this area and he just walked away when he first saw me, wierd acting deer. Good for bear or coyote bait.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
he never ammounted to anything.
Ok so you wait five years. If he never amounts to anything, how many times does he breed.

Why do they shoot those "management" deer on TV? Won't they all grow up to be trophies? Or is that just a "myth"?

Remember I hunt for relaxation, enjoyment of the outdoors and most importantly to relieve stress from my daily care giving obligation, and for meat not trophies. No legal deer gets a free pass if the freezer is low in my book.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
His neck is thin.
Brian, come on its 7:40 am, time to wake up, his whole body is thin.
 

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Ed don't forget two of your best 8 pointers have been taken on public land since qdm started in NJ. Don't forget that! Most likely they would have been victims of the orange army long before you got a chance at them.
 

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I agree with everyone else, that deer is still a youngster. I don't think he is a true spike either. Looks like he may be developing a brow tine on the one side. I'd give him at least another year in a non-QDM zone but being that you're in a QDM zone it looks like he's safe anyway.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Ed don't forget two of your best 8 pointers have been taken on public land since qdm started in NJ.
I'm all for QDM, but the point I was trying to make, apparently unsucessfully, is; What do you do about bucks that may never develope into a legal shooter in these areas?

I'm not saying the deer in the picture is an old deer but it is a mature, unhealthy, skinny deer and should be showing better antler developement for its age. I would be willing to bet that that deer has less than a 50% chance of ever being anything decent antler wise and less health wise. He may never even become a legal QDM area shooter.

It also has nothing to do with gun or bow preference, I hunt with both. To me, however, because during 6 day you can shoot two bucks, why not require only one meet antler restrictions. This would be ideal because of the relatively short length of gun season and it would be following two months of bow hunting, giving bow hunters ample opportunity to kill a QDM deer. Right now there is no provision to harvest inferior deer in QDM areas in NJ.

Maybe I should buy about 20-50 lb. bags of Rack-Em-Up or whatever you call it to help him out.
 

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Rack,

There was actually an article in I believe North American Whitetail a few copies ago that stressed exactly the point you were trying to make. Antler restrictions by points alone usually removes the most desirable bucks that should be protected. It showed how a 1 1/2 year old buck with 6 or 8 points has "often", (not always) the best chance to grow into a bigger deer.

As for QDM, of course I too would like it to take hold in NJ but I CANNOT support it until they do away with depridation permits, and white buffalo non sense!!
 
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