[JerseyJim]

Parents should decide when a child can hunt
Friday, November 04, 2005
BY FRED J. AUN
For the Star-Ledger
Tomorrow is the Take a Kid Hunting program's Youth Pheasant Hunt in New Jersey. So now might be a good time to stop and think about kids and hunting in general.

The state Division of Fish and Wildlife does quite a bit to encourage young people to hunt. It offers special youth hunting days for deer, turkey, pheasants and waterfowl.

The state acknowledges hunting is on a decline and will continue to falter unless youngsters are enticed into giving the shooting sports a try. Nevertheless, the National Wild Turkey Federation, the National Shooting Sports Foundation and the U.S. Sportsmen's Alliance contend most states -- including New Jersey -- are actually dissuading kids from going hunting. In their 14-page "Youth Hunting Report," the organizations assert there are too many unnecessary impediments in the name of safety. They contend too much control over youth hunting has been taken from parents and placed in the hands of hunter education instructors.

http://www.nj.com/sports/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/113108556628520.xml&coll=1

 

[mpemt24]

Jim another good article.
I agree that it should be up to the parents but I also agree the state should also have a say. Take for example the few unethical hunters. They may not be teaching their children correctly. Son, it's ok to shoot, we'll check for antlers later. My first year pheasant hunting, I heard a shot near the parking lot at Flatbrook and it ended up being a kid shooting at trout. His father was encouraging it. I know it is few, but they are still out there. Even though they do go through the course it may rid a few of the rookies of this habits.
However, I too agree there should be a chance for them to experience a hunt. I for one will bring my kids with me if they ask. They will just observe and will learn that it isn't the kill, but the experience. But maybe the state should look at the Youth Pheasant day. I have discussed this on other post but about beginers, not just youth. What if the hold youth or beginner days where a license is not required? They would get a safety lesson and practice shoot before the hunt. They would go out with experienced hunters and instructors and shown.
Having taken the hunter education course for my muzzleloader in August I got to go through the new course. I don't really like the at home video, but I understand the concept. At the time of the test, I thought the field walk was a waste of time. But again I have been hunting for 11 years. But for beginners I think it was very educational. They field walk followed by a introductory hunt would be good I think. I know, we would have to figure out who would pay for the hunt.

 

[Conphoto]

“I agree that it should be up to the parents but I also agree the state should also have a say. Take for example the few unethical hunters. They may not be teaching their children correctly.”

Hunting will be dead by the time my children become adults. How can we possibly believe the state should be teaching "ethics"? The original reason for a hunter education cl [no swearing please] was to teach people to be safe. It is not to teach ethics. This is America, don't hurt anyone and don't break the law. Anything else is up to you. Hunter education has become some sort of propaganda course without any logical basis.
As an example, I myself cannot hunt deer legally with a bow because I do not have a bowhunter stamp/course etc. ex. Is there some logical reason why that is so?
Hmm, I can legally hunt with a rifle. I can also run around the woods with a bow and arrow and broadheads and shoot at any other legal game, except bears and deer. I can climb a tree stand with a bow and arrow and shoot at anything but bears and deer.Jeez, I don't even need a license or have to shoot at animals, I could be shooting at rocks. Now since I can do all of those things legally, I basically represent the same danger to myself and the public as an unlicensed archery deer hunter. My arrows that I shoot at a squirrel can cause just as much damage as a deer hunter's. So why do I need a certificate? To protect the deer? It certainly is not protecting the general public. While I have no objection to make sure that someone learns to handle a firearm or bow properly do prevent harm to others, I do have a problem when they prevent me from hunting because I haven't taken a course that will force me to learn about someone else’s "ethics" and force me to learn useless facts about the structure of the NJDGF? (don't hunt jersey but live here)What does that cra* have to do with safety. Pretty soon they are going to require a 28hour course and the sport will be dead since no newcomers will sit through it (and it will have nothing to do with safety). It will be because someone will claim ethics. We can see with all of the different types of fisherman and fishing ethics in the world how different sportsman are. One man’s ethic of limiting out is quite different from another’s catch and release. Could you imagine what would happen if we they tried to impose an education course on fisherman? Who's ethics do you teach, kenny's catch and release or bob's bait and butcher? Why is it so different in hunting. Because this animal walks on land instead of swims in the sea I have to have someone "teach" me “ethics” and their belief that its the experience and not the actual taking of game that I'm out here for? HUH? No thanks comrade. While I agree with you regarding the guys shooting at fish, the problem is we don't know where it will end.We already have seen "them" try to get Anti hunters, political appointees on the fish and game and involved in hunting decisions(ala bear hunt). Imagine when they do get involved what additional requirements they will add, maybe a 10 hour ethics course on alternative methods of animal control to aid the environment? Hopefully you will see where this is heading, and realize that all we are doing is making it harder for a novice to enter our spoort and we aren't even getting any safety benefits from it. We need less training to drive a car even though its got about a 100000% greater chance of killing someone than a bow and arrow.

 

[mpemt24]

Hunter education has become some sort of propaganda course without any logical basis

The logical basis is to teach safety. When we did the field work they teach line of fire during a drive. It taught what direction to shoot and how much of an area a hunter has when driving. This could prevent shooting over people.

As an example, I myself cannot hunt deer legally with a bow because I do not have a bowhunter stamp/course etc. ex. Is there some logical reason why that is so?

Yes. Just like driving the state wants to know you know how to safely use a bow.

Hmm, I can legally hunt with a rifle

Not in New Jersey.

I can also run around the woods with a bow and arrow and broadheads and shoot at any other legal game, except bears and deer

No you can't. You still need the bow license to hunt small game with the bow.

My arrows that I shoot at a squirrel can cause just as much damage as a deer hunter's. So why do I need a certificate? To protect the deer?

Still need the certificate to get the license.

While I have no objection to make sure that someone learns to handle a firearm or bow properly do prevent harm to others, I do have a problem when they prevent me from hunting because I haven't taken a course that will force me to learn about someone else’s "ethics" and force me to learn useless facts about the structure of the NJDGF?

If you have already hunted you probably already have your own ethics. It will be hard for the instructor to change that. The facts learned about NJ Fish and Wildlife are we as sportsmen are educated about the Division. That we can be stewards of the sport. It is nice to know where the money from licenses are going or what the Pittman-Robertson Act does for us.

We can see with all of the different types of fisherman and fishing ethics in the world how different sportsman are. One man’s ethic of limiting out is quite different from another’s catch and release. Could you imagine what would happen if we they tried to impose an education course on fisherman? Who's ethics do you teach, kenny's catch and release or bob's bait and butcher? Why is it so different in hunting. Because this animal walks on land instead of swims in the sea

Because you aren't using equipment capable of killing.

Hopefully you will see where this is heading, and realize that all we are doing is making it harder for a novice to enter our spoort and we aren't even getting any safety benefits from it.

Actually we made it easier. Instead of going to a 2 night course and 1 day shoot, they have a take home video to watch. You only have meet 1 day or night for a field walk through, written test, and shoot. We are getting plenty of safety benefits. 1st, safe handling of firearms and bows. 2nd, they learn state laws meant for safety such as 450' saftey zone, no shooting across roadways. 3rd, they learn first aid, 4th, they learn the maximum distance of certain projectiles. 5th, they learn tree stand safety. Want me to keep going?

We need less training to drive a car even though its got about a 100000% greater chance of killing someone than a bow and arrow

Yes, they is a greater chance of killing someone with a vehicle than a hunting accident. However there is more training to drive a vehicle. 6 hours of behind the wheel instruction plus a minimum of 6 month of a probationary period before a license is issued. How does that compare to a home video and a 2 hour training day? Also where is the probationary period.

don't hunt jersey

Thats fine, because based on your feelings of the states hunter education program, I would not want to hunt the same area as you.

 

[230grain hollowpoint]

Don't make the same mistake I did. I started both my sons hunting at 10. They are now 25 & 27. I made the mistaake of taking them too much burning them out on it. The younger one doesn't hunt at all anymore. The older one only hunts pheasants in Ill. where he lives.

 

[bloodtrails]

I never pressure my kids. They pressure me. It's rare I sit in a treestand alone, especially on weekends.

 

[Duckmastor2]

The Youth Hunting Report includes New Jersey among the 20 states deemed to have "very restrictive" laws pertaining to youth hunting. It noted the ratio of youth hunter recruitment in 16 of those states (including New Jersey) was below the national average.

I wonder how much this really has to do with "contol". I've always thought that hunting was on the decline in NJ because of A) Cost and B) loss of huntable habitat due to sprawl. There is not 1 private place left in NJ where I hunted as a kid that isnt a housing development now. I know there is tons of public property but dealing with the crowds has to put a damper on how kids see hunting. On top of that, $28 a zone to hunt deer. Adds up if you hunt with Bow, shotgun and smokepole.

Just a thought.

 

[Dave2122]

I agree with you. Most of the land I hunted in my younger days is gone. Not to mention the cost of equiptment! Look at the prices on Bows...Give me a break! Technology can not justify triple the price in 10 years! If I was 14 and wanted to bow hunt it would cost to much. Then dump a licsence and camo and permits and you are in deep when your paper route pays you 60 dollars every 2 weeks.

Lack of Land
Lack of funds
equals
LAck of Interest.