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Letter to Fish and Game

3433 Views 47 Replies 10 Participants Last post by  jcchartboy
Hello Mr. Tarlow. My name is James B and I wanted to contact you regarding current Fish and Game regulation prohibiting the use of smokeless powder in muzzleloaders. I am curious to know if you are willing to take a closer look at this subject? Have you ever considered that there are less toxic, less vision obscuring (safer), and lower or equal velocity propellants available. I was really surprised to learn that "Triple Se7en" that is allowed for muzzleloading contains low-explosives, di-nitros, one notch below tri-nitros: TNT. Did you guys know all this?
If you consider DOT classification of explosives/combustibles the guidelines for regulating such propellants then you would have to rule current blackpowder substitutes such as Hodgdon Pyrodex, Triple Seven, Goex Pinnacle, and American Pioneer illegal as well. All are classified as 1.3 powders by U.S. DOT, as is the most popular "smokeless propellant" in the Savage ML, Accurate Arms 5744. True loose black powder, which is more unstable, difficult to ship, and harder to sell, receives a US DOT classification of 1.1.
Probably the most popular propellant used by NJ muzzleloader hunters would be Hodgdon's Pyrodex. When it was originally marketed it was refered to as a smokeless propellant and also as a blasting compound for mining operations. When it is burned it releases TOXIC cyanide gas. Marketing semantics now labels it differetly, but it is still the same DOT cl [no swearing please] powder.
The evolving sport of muzzleloading hunting is growing by leaps and bounds and many of the misconceptions of the public are just that. It has been a while since I have taken the muzzleloader/rifle permit safety course mandated by the state to muzzleloader hunt. I was curious to know if these facts were being incorporated into the course? I was shocked to learn that some of the highest velocity loads are achieved with a now legal and popular "three pellet" load.
It is also interesting to note that neighboring states Pennsylvania and New York allow "smokeless" powder in guns designed for it.
In closing I would like to thank you for taking the time to read this and welcome any further discussion on this subject.

James B
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Group Hug?


(Odd silence followed by someone suggesting we do something manly like chop firewood)
Matty is funny like that, Don't tell anyone, but I think he LIKES me !!!!'re too much Ian!:D
You want to hear something really funny?

I havent accomplished a damn thing all day!! NOTHING.. but Ive cracked up laughing a couple times. I love this site! I did eat lunch, but Im not sure that qualifies!

Actually that may just be pathetic?[confused] Oh well, whats one day in the grand scheme of things right?:D
long bows and recurves where around way before the time of American Cowboys & Indians..
The same goes for crossbows and release aids.
My intentions were not to turn this into a modern versus traditional debate. But rather expose myths and misconceptions about black powder substitutes. I can't understand why one particular substitute propellant is legal and the other isn't. No one has been able to provide any facts to disprove smokeless as a viable muzzle loading propellant. It is safer in the respect that it isn't as unstable and does not obscure vision in the field, it is not as igniteable, it offers no dicernable advantage in terms of velocity, and it is less toxic. I'm not comparing modern to traditional but rather modern versus modern.
I think Jeff Quinn said it best last fall on Gun

To a man, every critic, except one, of the smokeless muzzleloader,(Savage 10MLII), has never fired one. Many have never seen one, but still offer criticism of the rifle based upon the powder that it uses. I want to emphasize that the Savage can use black powder and any substitute on the market as well as any rifle, but due to the fact that it can be used with smokeless powder, many hunters want it banned from use during muzzleloading season. Again, these are shooters who have never even fired the rifle. I like the Savage, and have purchased one. It offers greater range, flatter trajectory, more power, and less fouling than any other muzzleloader on the market. I love mine.
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