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Discussion Starter #1
Hello Mr. Tarlow. My name is James B and I wanted to contact you regarding current Fish and Game regulation prohibiting the use of smokeless powder in muzzleloaders. I am curious to know if you are willing to take a closer look at this subject? Have you ever considered that there are less toxic, less vision obscuring (safer), and lower or equal velocity propellants available. I was really surprised to learn that "Triple Se7en" that is allowed for muzzleloading contains low-explosives, di-nitros, one notch below tri-nitros: TNT. Did you guys know all this?
If you consider DOT classification of explosives/combustibles the guidelines for regulating such propellants then you would have to rule current blackpowder substitutes such as Hodgdon Pyrodex, Triple Seven, Goex Pinnacle, and American Pioneer illegal as well. All are classified as 1.3 powders by U.S. DOT, as is the most popular "smokeless propellant" in the Savage ML, Accurate Arms 5744. True loose black powder, which is more unstable, difficult to ship, and harder to sell, receives a US DOT classification of 1.1.
Probably the most popular propellant used by NJ muzzleloader hunters would be Hodgdon's Pyrodex. When it was originally marketed it was refered to as a smokeless propellant and also as a blasting compound for mining operations. When it is burned it releases TOXIC cyanide gas. Marketing semantics now labels it differetly, but it is still the same DOT cl [no swearing please] powder.
The evolving sport of muzzleloading hunting is growing by leaps and bounds and many of the misconceptions of the public are just that. It has been a while since I have taken the muzzleloader/rifle permit safety course mandated by the state to muzzleloader hunt. I was curious to know if these facts were being incorporated into the course? I was shocked to learn that some of the highest velocity loads are achieved with a now legal and popular "three pellet" load.
It is also interesting to note that neighboring states Pennsylvania and New York allow "smokeless" powder in guns designed for it.
In closing I would like to thank you for taking the time to read this and welcome any further discussion on this subject.

Sincerely
James B
 

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I dont think Paul T. has anything to do with these regs, but Im sure he will p [no swearing please] it on through the proper channels as soon as he can. If not, Im certain he will advise you on who to alert about this.

Well written though, and good facts. It may get the ball rolling on what you want. Good luck[up]
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Bacs gave me the contact name! Blood trails can you furnish a contact e-mail address?
 

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Best bet is to hand deliver to the members. If that's not an option mail to:

NJ Division of F&W
Fish and Game Council
PO Box 400
Trenton, NJ 08625-0400
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I received a prompt response from Mr. Tarlowe and he thanked me for sharing these concerns with him. He also indicated he would be forwarding the information to Wildlife Management and Law Enforcement for their review. I have subsequently drafted a letter to mail, myself, to the Fish and Game Council. Thank you bloodtrails for the information.
Does anybody have a contact in the NJ Federation of Sportsmen who would be willing to listen these concerns?
 

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Good job Jim.[up]

If you need a list of supporters, I will sign.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thank you Matty!! We'll see how it goes???
 

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If you really want smokeless powder for muzzleloaders, why not go try and get help tp p [no swearing please] Centerfire rifles then you can use smokeless powder.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
If you really want smokeless powder for muzzleloaders, why not go try and get help tp p [no swearing please] Centerfire rifles then you can use smokeless powder.
I tell you what there Mystic, come up with some facts, present a reasonable arguement and lead the charge... I'll be there to support you! and FYI more people are shot in hunting related accidents with shotguns than rifles. There you go bud, I started it off for you :p
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I would, but I only hunt with a long bow & Muzzleloader only....And BTW I only use real Black Powder.
What kind of muzzle loader "only" is this???

 

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MG, why argue this? Its like when trad shooters bash compound shooters. I shoot both, and give respect to die-hard trad shooters, because it is harder, but they shouldnt bash thier fellow bow-bending brothers who choose to use a compound.

Its just seems silly. Why cant we all get along? Its not like hes asking for rocket launcher season or hand grenade day.:D

Spit on your hands, shake and make up!;)
 

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MG, why argue this? Its like when trad shooters bash compound shooters. I shoot both, and give respect to die-hard trad shooters, because it is harder, but they shouldnt bash thier fellow bow-bending brothers who choose to use a compound.
Matty who did I bash??? If anyone wants to use a wheel bow go right ahead, I used to shoot wheel bows now I shoot real bows. I just feel smokeless should be in muzzleloaders thats all. I haven't nor will I ever use smokeless powder in my smokepole, but again if others want to.. Go right ahead, Or better still help and get centerfire rifles legal.
 

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If it sounds like I'm bashing anyone.... Your bad not mine. It just doesn't sound right to me Smokeless powder in a muzzleloader, Thats just like some people calling 6-day shotgun season. In New Jersey 6-day you can use shotgun or muzzleloader, if it was just shotgun only then I can see calling it shotgun season.
 

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Umm, I didnt say you bashed anyone.

But you make pokes at things, whether or not you are trying to be humorous is beyond me.

Im not trying to cause problems here, just help resolve this. I can see where its all going, and I didnt think it was good for hunters.

Its an elitist attitude to just come out and say "real bows" as well. So I guess I shoot real bows, and fake bows. I like you from what I know of you MG, you seem like a dedicated bowhunter, but dont try to cause trouble. OK? Dont act like you dont know you are either. Come on, man, just be cool!;)
 

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I just speak my mind. If anyone doesn't like ....Owell I guess they should get over it. I also didn't say compounds where fake bows, just that longbows are "real bows" They where the first bows made. Mine is laminated, but still a long bow. If someone needs to go out and get the newest thingy to be better at hunting, fishing, or whatever THAT IS KOOL WITH ME.
but dont try to cause trouble. OK? Dont act like you dont know you are either.
I don't cause trouble, I just give a different point of view.
 
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