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This was pulled from another site, and I thought it was good.

you say corporate America should take responsibility and provide health care. Excuse me, it is each person's responsibility to provide health care for themselves and their families, just like it is a personal responsibility to provide everything else. One of the reasons we are in this mess is that people have gotten used to not paying for their own health care, because their employer provides health insurance. We need to have some basic reforms: 1. congress needs to pass a law so we can buy insurance across state lines and allow portability. 2. Employers should not get a tax deduction for employees' health insurance--the money now spent on the insurance should be paid to employees and the employees should buy their own. 3.Tort reform--the cost of defensive medicine is very high. 4. The major reason health care is inefficient is the myriad government regulations--I know, I have been an accountant for docs. 5.Get rid of the government mandates that certain things be required in insurance policies--like in vitro fertilization, chiropractic care, etc. We should be debating if Americans want to make health care a "right." Because if we do, we have just re-constituted our nation permanently. And I am not kidding--I will move to any state that will secede and abide by our Constitution. My son is fighting in Afghanistan for the freedoms that our congress and president are throwing away. It is sickening.
 

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This health care plan is going to destroy America. Drug companies fuel drug and medical research. Without money for research none will be done. Unless this country wants to go comunist which it seems like we are leaning more and more towards. The bottom line is study hard and get a job that will pay for your insurance. Is it that hard for other americans to do? Bob I see your point but Obama's plan wants to tax the rich to pay for the poor peoples insurance. Incomes of 500,000 or more. I have been working for a fortune 10 company for 2 years now. They pay for my insurance. I don't see anything wrong with that as I worked hard to get my job.
 

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Force any member of GOVERNMENT(especially senate and house) to have health insurance NO better than the "average" worker.

OBAMA's plan trusts the health care system to the same people responsible for over seeing banking and stock market. Anyone think that is a good thing[wallmad]
 

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They pay for my insurance.
Actually, you pay for your health insurance because it's part of your compensation for working there. If you didn't get it through the company, you'd expect a higher salary to pay for it on your own. A business owner(s) looks at the whole package cost when hiring someone, not just the actual paycheck items. Just like union vs. contractor negotiations, you have to look at the whole package which is healthcare, vacation, retirement programs, etc. all of which you earn.
 

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This health care plan is going to destroy America. Drug companies fuel drug and medical research
Thank you! Someone who gets it!! How many new drugs or new medical procedures come out of Canada or other socialized medical care nations....NONE
 

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People just don't get it: If you simply ran a commercial with a black screen scrolling in white bold letters each edict that has been handed down by medicare/medicaide over the years:

Testing supplies are not covered; Hormone therapy is not covered; viagra is not covered; catheters are one a month; angioplasti is not covered; mamograms are only once every three years; etc... over and over again showing how the government already tells you that you should not get that done because it won't be paid for-

people would get the message that they don't want government in their healthcare decisions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

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Testing supplies are not covered; Hormone therapy is not covered; viagra is not covered; catheters are one a month; angioplasti is not covered; mamograms are only once every three years; etc... over and over again showing how the government already tells you that you should not get that done because it won't be paid for-

people would get the message that they don't want government in their healthcare decisions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ironic though that abortion will be covered under the government's proposed plan. If abortion is a "right" under the law, they'll have to cover it won't they?[eyeroll]
 

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And one wonders why the state of California closed almost 90 hospitals since 1996 because they were were going bankrupt.

Half of the 78 hospitals remaining in New Jersey are LOSING money. (Source: news.Nurse.com - March 10, 2008 - Hospital Closings in New Jersey)

WHY???



Obama Health Plan to Cover 12 Million Illegals
Sunday, July 19, 2009 6:32 PM
By: David A. Patten Article Font Size


On Friday, Democrats moved one step closer to giving free health insurance to the nation’s estimated 12 million illegal aliens when they successfully defeated a Republican-backed amendment, offered by Rep. Dean Heller, R-Nev., that would have prevented illegal aliens from receiving government-subsidized health care under the proposed plan backed by House Democrats and President Barack Obama.

The House Ways and Means Committee nixed the Heller amendment by a 26-to-15 vote along straight party lines, and followed this action by passing the 1,018-page bill early Friday morning by a 23-to-18 margin, with three Democrats voting against the plan.

The Democratic plan will embrace Obama’s vision of bringing free government medical care to more than 45 million uninsured people in America – a significant portion of whom are illegal aliens.

According to the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, costs under the Obama plan being proposed by the House will saddle citizens with $1.04 trillion in new federal outlays over the next decade.

Congressional Democrats and Obama have argued that their health plan is necessary to contain rising health care costs.

But, last Thursday, CBO Director Douglas Elmendorf testified before the Senate Budget Committee and warned lawmakers that the proposed “legislation significantly expands the federal responsibility for health care costs."

A key factor increasing costs is that Democratic plan provides for blanket coverage to as much as 15 percent of the U.S. population not currently insured, including illegals.

Democrats had insisted throughout the health-care reform debate that illegals would be ineligible for the so-called public option plan that is to be subsidized by taxpayers.

"We're not going to cover undocumented aliens, undocumented workers," Sen. Max Baucus, D-Mont., the chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, told reporters in May. "That's too politically explosive."

Republicans, however, point out that the Democrats, by refusing to accept the Heller amendment, would deny health agencies from conducting simple database checks to verify citizenship. Many states give illegals driver licenses, which will be sufficient to get free health care under the plan.

Critics also contend that millions of illegals who already have counterfeit Social Security cards or other fraudulent documents. There is no enforcement mechanism in the legislation, experts say, to prevent illegals who use fake IDs to obtain jobs from also obtaining taxpayer-subsidized health insurance.

GOP representatives introduced the amendment to provide a way to weed out non-citizens from the program.

A description of the amendment on Heller's Web site state it would "better screen applicants for subsidized health care to ensure they are actually citizens or otherwise entitled to it."

The Web post added, "The underlying bill is insufficient for the purpose of preventing illegal aliens from accessing the bill’s proposed benefits, as it does not provide mechanisms allowing those administering the program to ensure illegal aliens cannot access taxpayer-funded subsidies and benefits."

The Heller amendment would have required that individuals applying for the public health care option would be subject to two systems used to verify immigration status already in use by the government: The Income and Eligibility Verification System (IEVS) and the Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements (SAVE) program.


The two systems cross-reference Social Security numbers and employment information to establish whether an individual is a U.S. citizen.


Critics: Free Health Care Means More Illegals


A recent Rasmussen Reports poll found that an overwhelming 80 percent of Americans oppose covering illegals in any public health care bill.

Anti-immigration activists say the availability of low-cost benefits, including health insurance and in-state tuition, will only lure more immigrants to come to the United States.

Political analyst Dick Morris, in his recently released best-selling book “Catastrophe”, warns that giving illegal free health care will lead to a flood of new illegals who can take advantage of such a benefit not offered in their home countries.

William Gheen, president of Americans for Legal Immigration, agrees with that sentiment, writing, "Each state and federal elected official must know that illegal aliens should not be given licenses, in-state tuition, mortgages, bank accounts, welfare, or any other benefit short of emergency medical care and law enforcement accommodations before they are deported."

But a small fraction of illegals end up deported, as many make widespread use of fake IDs to easily gain access to government benefits programs.

"Experts suggest that approximately 75 percent of working-age illegal aliens use fraudulent Social Security cards to obtain employment," wrote Ronald W. Mortensen in a recent Center for Immigration Studies research paper. Mortensen says one of the big misconceptions about illegals is that they are undocumented.

James R. Edwards Jr., co-author of The Congressional Politics of Immigration Reform, recently wrote on National Review Online that "it's hard to envision how health reform can avoid tripping the immigration booby trap."

Edwards says none of the legislation under consideration actually requires any state, federal, or local agency to check the immigration status of those who apply for the program.

The assumption is that companies have vetted their employees to ensure they are eligibility for legal employment – a difficult task for employers given the active market in fraudulent documents. Thus Edwards maintains "some of the money distributed … inevitably would go to illegal aliens."

The estimates of illegal aliens in the United States without health insurance vary. The most commonly cited statistic, attributed to the Center for Immigration Statistics and the U.S. Census Bureau, holds that 15 percent to 22 percent of the nation's 46 million uninsured are illegal aliens. That would be between 6.9 million and 10.1 million people. During the 2008 presidential campaign, Obama claimed the nation United States has 12 million or more undocumented aliens.

John Sheils of the Lewin Group, a health care consulting firm owned by UnitedHealth Group, recently told National Public Radio that about 6.1 million illegals – about half of all illegals in the United States – lack documentation and therefore would not be legally eligible for benefits under the current health care reforms.

Sheils says the other half of the nation's illegals – 5 million to 6 million – use false documents to obtain on-the-books employment. Many of them are already insured under their employers' plans, he added.

"A lot of those people are getting employer health benefits as part of their compensation," Sheils told NPR.

Certainly, some contend that undocumented workers who are gainfully employed and receiving benefits such as health insurance are contributing to society. But the fact remains that, once equipped with a fake ID, a person in the United States illegally can obtain both a job and the benefits that go with it.

Estimates of the cost of providing illegals with medical care vary. Most uninsured illegals who need medical attention obtain it from hospital emergency rooms. And several states are already straining under the huge burden of paying for the health costs of illegal aliens.

According to the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), in 2004 California's estimated cost of unreimbursed medical care was $1.4 billion. Texas estimated its cost at $850 million annually, and Arizona at $400 million.

Non-border states shoulder heavy burdens as well. Virginia's annual cost of providing health care for undocumented workers is approximately $100 million per year, FAIR reports, while Florida's health care cost is about $300 million annually.

One of the ironies of the proposed legislation is that it would fine American citizens who opt not to purchase insurance coverage, but would exempt illegals from such fines. This is presumably due to the fact that they are not supposed to participate in the program anyway.

Even if no illegals were likely to benefit from health care reform, Democrats have made it clear that amnesty is the next item on their ambitious legislative agenda.

"I've got to do health care, I've got to do energy, and then I'm looking very closely at doing immigration," Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., declared in June.

Reid explained the urgent need for amnesty in terms very similar to those that Democrats have used to press for health care reform. "We have an immigration system that's broken and needs repair," Reid said.

Immigration expert Edwards, for one, says health-care reform may itself need serious medical attention before it is healthy enough pass through Congress.

"The American people may soon realize how much health reform will benefit immigrants and cost the native-born," he writes. "When that happens, the volatile politics of immigration could derail universal health care."

http://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/obama_illegals_healthcare/2009/07/19/237484.html
 

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What worries me is no one sees the light at the end of the tunnel, and on this one it's an oncoming train.
 

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Half of the 78 hospitals remaining in New Jersey are LOSING money. July 21,2009 - Hospital Closings in New Jersey)

WHY??? Almost half of hospital patients are uninsured! A news bulletin from an Emergency Room Dr.
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They lose money on (some) insured patients, too. My health insurance carrier, Aetna, cancelled its contract with the St Clare Hospital system last January. Where I live, I am surrounded my the St Clare hospitals. But, they were now "out of network" for my family. The state stepped in, and each side budged a little, and the contract was re-instated. The state confirmed that St Clare's, even after layoffs and other money saving measures, will still lose money on each Aetna patient. This exact situation also took place 3 January's ago. And, of course, add to St Clare's problems Washington repeatedly reducing Medicare reimbursement rates, NJ reducing MediCaid and Charity Care reimbursement rates.

[btw, my neigbors now find themselves without health insurance. Real nice couple, always worked hard, holding multiple jobs to try to help their kids with college, etc etc. Now, one job between them, and no insurance. They are in their 50's]
 

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And, of course, add to St Clare's problems Washington repeatedly reducing Medicare reimbursement rates, NJ reducing MediCaid and Charity Care reimbursement rates.
That has always been a problem for hosipitals. The government reimbursements do not completely cover the actual costs. Unfortunately, things won't change for the realistic better until manufacturing comes back home...if ever. We need jobs that offer benefits and salaries that can support families. Manufacturing is the backbone of our country and all other industries thrive around it. We've made the mistake of substituting Wall Street for it, now the tail is wagging the dog.
 

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That has always been a problem for hosipitals. The government reimbursements do not completely cover the actual costs. Unfortunately, things won't change for the realistic better until manufacturing comes back home...if ever. We need jobs that offer benefits and salaries that can support families. Manufacturing is the backbone of our country and all other industries thrive around it. We've made the mistake of substituting Wall Street for it, now the tail is wagging the dog.
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I couldn't agree with you more? What's happened to our country?

The past 10 years we really went into overdrive outsourcing our economy. Giving China "Most Favored Nation" status!?

All this outsourcing has been great for the bottom line of our corporations ... but what has it done to our country? Our future? Kids and grandkids?

What does a capitalist do these days when he comes up with an idea? Build it in China, and have customer support in India.

People are wasting their time complaining about Obama, or whatever bs is on the bs news today.

China is making fools out of us ... and, to a lesser degree, much of the rest of the western world. And, we just take it.

Makes me sick to my stomach. Pissed off, too.
 

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Another fact. NJ health care costs at our hospitals are inflated OVER 800% to cover the uninsured. I would NEVER defend insurance companies but I can see their point.

Waited in the hospital recently with my son. 45 minutes filling out paperwork and insurance forms. Then watched as non-insured, non-english speaking individuals filled out NOTHING and received treatment. Notice a problem.
 

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Why is the cost of health care so high? Shuyster lawyers and the people that are looking for a quick buck that hire them driving up malpractice insurance. Don't believe me? Just ask your doctor. A few years back oby/gyn's were dropping like flies because of this, including my wife's.

I have been home for the last three months with a ruptured achyllies tendon and I don't know how many adds a day I see on TV from these worthless POS lawyers. Even that Ellen Brockovich(name/sp) is one. The AH's in Washington, most of which just happen to have a background in law[kiss], are looking in the wrong direction. Intentionally most likely.
 
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