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Discussion Starter #1
Looking for feedback on broadhead selection. Here is my scenario and I knew if I posted here I'd get plenty of opinions.

Shooting a Hoyt Ultrasport at 50lbs 29 1/2 inch draw. I flared up an old shoulder injury shooting the bow at 60 and had no relief at 55 so I had the shop tune it as low as it would go. Unfortunately I had my arrows cut and set for the 60lb pull, shot 24 or so arrows when injury reoccured. 400 grain carbon Eastons and 100grain field points. I have only shot 100 arrows tops at 20 yds. I am grouping tight. Consistently out of 3 shots 2 will be within a dimes diameter and the third just on the fringe of that diameter. I know that the spine may make a slight issue since they were set up for 60lbs,but I'm not forking out for more carbons at this point and I am hoping through consistent shooting the body will adjust and I can creep up in poundage a little at a time until I am back near 60lbs. Woods I typically hunt will not allow for more than 30 yd shots. I am looking for suggestions as to what retractable/mechanical broadheads you folks have tried and like. Deer will be the primary animal they will be used on. I don't want to spend say more than $30 for 3. I am lazy when it comes to some stuff and I'd rather throw out the head and open a new pack than changeing the blades.
 

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50 lbs will kill just fine. My son shot 2 last year, complete passthroughs at 37lbs.

My question is why mechanicals? At lower poundages I would stick with a fixed blade cut on contact. Look into Magnus stinger 4 blade. Great penetration.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I get easily frustrated when it comes to tuning fixed blades. I want someting I can basically take from the package and shoot a few to make sure they hit like field points. I know I shouldn't be lazy/ frustrated but that's me. I am not against some of those smaller 1 inch cut diameter fixed blades if they fly like fieldpoints.
 

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With only 50 lbs of draw weight, you will likely have problems with mechanicals. You need extra KE to open the head and get penetration.

Take the time to practice with and tune a good cut on contact head like the Stingers, and you'll be fine. If you don't, you are going to have alot of problems, possibly wound many deer, and just have a bad experience.

Since you admit you don't want to spend the time to do it right, please consider not bowhunting until you can spend the time to get it right. Archery hunting is not like firearm hunting...you can't do this...
I get easily frustrated when it comes to tuning fixed blades. I want someting I can basically take from the package and shoot a few to make sure they hit like field points. I know I shouldn't be lazy/ frustrated but that's me
and expect good results. This attitude is one of the major reasons many people hate mechanical heads... to them, it promotes the attitude you don't have to work at practicing and tuning your equipment.

If you can, get a crossbow permit, but please don't use poorly matched equipment just because you admit being too lazy to spend the time to do it right. You will have a bad experience, and the deer will pay for it.
 

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Magnus stringers or RazorCaps will work great for you and with the razorcaps you can up your head weight to drop your arrow spine to get better flight. going with 175 or the 200 gr will put you arrows to the right spine, saving you some money on arrows.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
NJB- the difficulty with communicating e-mail/computer makes ones point come across wrong. Sorry if you took it the wrong way. I practice plenty. I just lack patience when it comes to making things work via finetuning. Exception being sights on my bow and firearms. Example being I can frame with the best of them but I don't have the patience to be a finish carpenter. Mechanical heads are not my only option and I should have clarified. I will shoot enough with whatever head I decide on to ensure that it will fly the way I expect it to each time and consistently hit my point of aim. I was refering to fixed blade as in the old style Muzzy's. That often times regardless of what you did they still planed etc.. Clean and quick humane kills have always been my goal regardless of the method I have taken deer with. I am just not a tinkerer and am looking for a good quality mechanical/fixed head that doesn't require the time and patience the old style (80's early 90's) type fixed blades required. Again sorry if you misunderstood. Don't you worry about the practice part as the target is set up in the yard as is the ladder stand to allow plenty of time to fling arrows several nights each week from now until opening.
 

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I would shy away from mechs if your only shooting 50lbs...Not enough KE in my opinion...Try some of the bullet heads out there like the NAP crossfire or the nitron real good flying heads..If your having a tuff time getting good broadhead flight try different flethings go with a 4" or 5" flech with a real heavy helical...Or try the Bohning Blazer which is a small fletch only 2" long but is real tall and is desgined esp. for broadheads I've used them with a 100g. Muzzy 3 blade and they worked great...Also there is the NAP quickspin...The bottom line is your still going to have to tune your bow / broadhead combo but changing your arrow fletch combo may make it an easier proccess
 

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Once you try a Crimson Talon you will never use anything else again. I used mechanical prior to using the Talon's and yet the mechanical flies true I had problems with opening and I am at 70lbs. I also lost 3 deer to mechanicals last year. Moving over to the fixed blade Talon from the mechanical took no adjustment at all I to off the Mechanical put on the Talon shot 20 yards Dead on Bull's-eye! After changing to the Talon I did not lose one deer after that never had one run farther than 20 yards after the shot. Try Em' you will love them! [up]
 

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I wouldnt recommend mechanical heads with your setup, as the others have stated you arent going to get enough KE.

As for being overspined, I wouldnt even consider it. Modern compounds shot with release aids, tend to favor overly-spined arrows. I shoot Carbon 400's out of a 52# 27" bow. No problems at all.

I wouldnt go with a broadhead much heavier than 125gr. Stick with the 100's even. Otherwise you will see a significant drop in trajectory. Like I said, the spine is nothing to worry about.

I would recommend a cut-on contact broadhead such as the magnus stingers, G5 montec's, bear razors, or NAP razorbaks. Other good broadheads that should work well with your setup are; NAP nitrons, NAP thunderheads, muzzy's, etc.

There are a ton of good broadheads out there, and some of them are still reasonably priced. Steer clear of mech heads with your set-up, and take the little bit of time to tune the fixed heads and you will be fine.

Infact, I will post an article Im in the middle of writing for you....its about tuning. Its not revised, but it should help you out. I'll post it below....Tuning isnt all that hard, and doesnt need to be time consuming or frustrating.

Have a good one---matt
 

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Here, I hope this helps.---Matt




Bow tuning made easy.

Ever get frustrated while tuning your bow? Have you ever felt like you just couldnt tune it to shoot perfect bullet holes? Or maybe you've seen others get so frustrated that you leave it up to the professionals. You're not alone, I used to feel the same way.

Keep reading though, because Im going to give you a better understanding of bow-tuning and how to simplify it.

First of all, lets discuss what bow tuning is. Bow tuning is not some magic cure-all that will make your bow shoot better. Bow tuning simply allows your bow to be more forgiving of mistakes, such as a torqued grip or a misaligned arrow nock. Bow tuning can also help you obtain better groups when it comes to field points and broadheads because of this "tuned forgivness". The accuracy still lies in your hands though.

Tuning your bow to shoot perfect bullet holes through paper is not always going to make you more accurate, and its not always necessary. There are many different ways to tune your bow. Including "paper tuning", "group tuning", "french tuning", "broadhead tuning" etc.

The majority of people become frustrated because they try to do too much at once. First of all, you shouldnt use every different method of tuning. If you do, you had better expect to pull your hair out. I cant count the amount of times that people have said to me, the group tuning went really well, but it gets a slight left tear through paper. A perfect paper tear does NOT always mean you will have the perfect group tune, nor will a perfect broadhead tune mean your bare shaft tune is spot on. Using multiple methods can leave you much like a dog chasing his tail. Its best to pick ONE method of tuning and stick with it. Or you can use the methods in a certain order, tuning as a progression from method to method. Ending with the tune that is most important to you.

Its important when using any kind of tuning method, to abide by the following "rules":

-You need matching equipment. It needs to be set up exactly as it will be when you hunt with it.

-You need to be consistant in your shooting form and abilities. If your form or grip is ever-changing, your results will vary also. Learn to shoot consistantly before trying to tune your bow.

-Make only one adjustment at a time. Minor adjustments are best.

-Write down your initial settings and any changes you make as you go along. This allows you to start over, or go to a certain setting should you need to, or if problems arise.



Now lets take a look at a few tuning methods;

First we have paper tuning, probably the most widely known and accepted tuning process. It consists of shooting fletched arrows through a taunt sheet of paper from a set distance such as 9 feet. It is a GREAT way to see if your arrows are leaving the bow as straight as possible. The less wobble, the less "correcting" the vanes or feathers have to do. This also increases the amount of forward momentum that the arrow receives, allowing it to penetrate better than an arrow that leaves the bow fishtailing and porpoising. However, I dont see a lot of need for this method. Its time consuming with minimal gains. Unless your bow is very low on kinetic energy, you dont need to worry much about paper tuning. Besides, if you shoot that same wobbling arrow at ten yards, in most cases, the fletchings will have already corrected it. The other methods of tuning will get you close to a perfect tear without the amount of work involved. If you do decide to paper tune, set up a taunt sheet of newspaper on a frame. This needs to be placed at least an arrows length away from your target. Standing approx. 9 feet away, fire an arrow through the paper. If the cuts in the paper show that the fletching end is off to the left of the point. Try adjusting your rest out to the left.(righthanded shooter). Should the fletch end be higher than the point, try raising your rest, or lowering your nocking point. In some cases, the tear will get worse, if thats the case, try starting at the original tune, and going the opposite way. Some bad tears are caused by improper spine, fletching contact, or even the shooter. If you suspect spine is an issue, try different point weights, or lowering/raising your peak draw weight. Fletching contact can be checked by sprinkling baby powder on the rest area, or by applying lipstick to the rest and checking the arrow for lipstick after a shot. Just dont let your friends catch you with red lipstick in your bow tackle box, or your wife for that matter. All sorts of problems could ensue.

Next lets look at bare shaft tuning. This is used mainly to check the spine of your arrows in relation to the bow. You shoot a group of fletched arrows and a group of unfletched arrows and make adjustments to your rest and or nocking point according to the two groups relation to each other. If the bare shafts strike to the right of the fletched arrows, you would move your rest to the left, until the two groups meet. This method is great for recurve and longbow shooters, because it allows them to experiment with different spined arrows, finding the best bow/arrow combo. Though I think its another method of tuning thats just not necessary with a modern compound shot with a release aid. Compounds shot with releases are quite indifferent about arrow spine, infact, the stiffer the spine the better. If you are within one or two sizes on todays arrow charts you are fine. Your spine will match the bow, and if you do have problems, play with tip weight and bow draw weight. The heavier the tip, the weaker the spine of the arrow, the more draw weight the stiffer spine you need. One last reason I see no need for many people to bareshaft tune is; How often will you shoot bare shafts at deer and turkeys? Yeah I didnt think so....

Group Tuning is a great method of tuning arrows for the utmost in accuracy. If you want a bow that is tuned to group arrows on top of each other, use this method. Using a target with a 1" thick straight "line" running top to bottom, and three well matched arrows, fire three shots at the vertical line. Moving your arrow rest in or out until all of your arrows strike the line with consistancy. After you have set the center shot, turn the target sideways so you have a horizontal line to shoot at. Fire the arrows at this line, adjusting rest or nocking point height until all arrows strike the line consistantly. This method is perfect for your 3D or spot shooting bow, but If you will be hunting with the bow, this is another method that isnt really all that productive. You would be better off scouting than group tuning. (French tuning is similar to group tuning in that you shoot for vertical and horizontal groups. Only in french tuning you back away from the target as you go, so that you get the best over-all tune. (tuned at all the yardages).

So what method is good for a hunting bow then? It depends upon what you want.

If you want a bow that spits broadheads and field points exactly the same. Use a method called broadhead tuning. Its similar to bare-shaft tuning, except instead of fletched and unfletched shafts, you use broadhead tipped and field tipped arrows. Adjusting your rest and/or nocking point until the two different types of arrows impact the same. This is a great method for the average bowhunter, and one I highly recommend. It allows you to practice with your field points without changing sight settings. It also prevents you from having to worry about broadheads chewing up that expensive target with tons of broadhead practice. When using this method, be sure to shoot the broadheaded arrow group first. Using several spots on the same target is a good idea. Anytime you use broadheads, you run the risk of really "chewing" up the other arrows.

If you want a bow that shoots broadheads with precision, use the method of group tuning above with broadheaded arrows.

If you're shooting mechanical heads and feel you are on the lower end of the KE spectrum, or if you just feel as though you may be lacking enough power for good penetration, paper tune your arrows. Mech heads will normally hit with field points anyhow, so use paper tuning to make sure you're putting the bows full potential into the arrow.

If you prefer to check your bow with a few different methods, go in a particular order such as;

Bare shaft tune with several size arrows until you find the size that groups closest to its fletched version.

Paper tune these arrows.

Make any minor adjustments you may need by group tuning.

Finally, if you plan on shooting broadheads, shoot them and either tune the bow to group them with field points, or sight the bow in to the broadheads. (If broadhead tuning is not your thing. Two separate sights can be very helpful. Have one sighted in for broadheads and one for field points. For practice, and going to shoots, screw on the FP sight. When hunting season rolls around, screw on the BH sight and you're good to go.)

Lastly, no matter which method of tuning you choose, ALWAYS make sure to test shoot some broadheaded arrows. These are what get loosed at living animals, and thats all that really COUNTS. We owe it to the game animals we hunt, to use only the sharpest, most accurate broadheads we can. The only way to KNOW that they will fly true, is to try them.

Hopefully after reading this, you will be able to spend less time tuning, and more time scouting. You never know, that extra day scouting could help put you on the best buck of your life. Good luck this upcoming bow season.[up]
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Thanks for all the feedback. I am going with Sonics from the American Broadhead Company. Low and behold I went to my proshop yesterday for some fine tuning. I was grouping tight and nine out of ten times I was hitting in the 2 to 3 o'clock area. The tenth time I would group tight again but be in the 9 0'clock area. This is all at 20 yds. The pro I normally deal with had the day off. What nerve, last time I went in 2 weeks ago he was bear hunting in Canada. Well I dealt with the owner and his wife. The had me shoot and were amazed at the groups I was shooting. They have a file when they sell a bow and give you 10 hrs instruction and an additional 10 hrs of indoor range time. I had only shot less than 2 hrs with the other pro and an hour or two on my own. I told them this bow from day one had shot groups as tight as a cats a... They said they would not touch the sights. But if I had a few minutes to keep shooting they would be right back after the 2 browsers who were their for the past hour left. They came back after I had shot another dozen,Watched me for another dozen and then had a long discussion about my grip. I switched my finger position and presto every one of the next dozen either center of the bullseyes or on the frindge. After I was done and we discussed the general state of affairs in NH hunting I asked about broadheads. They started talking about Sonic fixed blades. They gave me three heads and had me shoot with them. I shot 6 arrows and all 6 grouped just like my fieldpoints. Came home and read the literature and do some research and low and behold my shop was and still is involved in design and testing of these blades. I will be going back and buyying a 1/2dozen this week. They are only 36 bucks for a 1/2 dozen. Quality and quantity for a decent price. Anyway sorry for the long windedness.

Thanks again for all your feedback.
 

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Never heard of Sonic Broadheads, but as long as they are a decent quality head, shot placement will do the rest. Sounds like you have that angle covered---good luck in the fall.
 

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I have been using the NAP razorback`s for a few years know.I have no complaints about them. Great results with all my shots being pass-throughs,except on shot that was burried deep into a shoulder blade of a deer.The sonic`s sound real good might have to get some and do some of my own test,before I switch though.
 
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