Ideas for improving the quality of NJ bucks w/out AR.

Quote:
I would like to propose a reduction in the amount of antlered deer tags issued per hunter. Currently, if a hunter hunts with all possible weapons in all seasons, they would be able to harvest six (6) antlered deer in a calendar year. I would propose reducing the antlered deer tags to three (3) per year, with the option to purchase a fourth antlered deer tag. This tag would be a "Quality Buck Tag" (QBT) that could be used in any season. This tag would retail at a price set forth by the Fish & Game Council.

The "Quality Buck Tag" would conform to already established DFW Quality Deer Management regulations, except that it would be applied statewide for use with the “QBT”.

The reduction of antlered deer tags and the addition of the "QBT" would be done in an effort to make hunters more selective in the antlered deer they harvest. Hoping that hunters would p [no swearing please] on taking younger 1.5 to 2.5-year-old antlered deer in favor of a more mature deer, thus creating an older antlered deer base age and leading to better quality antlered deer herd in New Jersey. A Quality Deer Management program by default.

An antlered deer tag could be used in any season, but no more than one per season, with the exception of the "QBT" which could be used in any season after a hunter has harvested their first antlered deer.

Winter Bow: A hunter may harvest one (1) antlered deer, with the option of an additional antlered deer with the "QBT".

Fall Bow: A hunter may harvest one (1) antlered deer, after EAB requirement is met in EAB Zones, with the option of an additional antlered deer with the "QBT".

Permit Bow: A hunter may harvest one (1) antlered deer, after EAB requirement is met in EAB Zones, with the option of an additional antlered deer with the "QBT".

6-Day Firearm: A hunter may harvest one (1) antlered deer, with the option of taking an additional antlered deer with the "QBT". *

Permit Shotgun: A hunter may harvest one (1) antlered deer, after EAB requirement is met in EAB Zones, with the option of an additional antlered deer with the "QBT".

Muzzleloader: A hunter may harvest one (1) antlered deer, after EAB requirement is met in EAB Zones, with the option of an additional antlered deer with the "QBT".

Hunters would be able to use their tags in any combination of seasons listed above, but would not be able to exceed the three (3) antlered deer tags per year, except if they purchase the "QBT" four a total of four (4) antlered deer per year.

* The 6-Day firearm season would be reduced to one (1) antlered deer. The "QBT" could be used to take a second antlered deer in the six-day firearm season.

The Youth Day Deer Hunts (Archery & Firearm) would be separate from this, and juvenile hunters utilizing a Juvenile Hunting license, would be allowed to harvest one (1) antlered deer during the Youth Hunts. This antlered deer would not count against the Youth Hunter’s three (3) antlered deer tags.

Hunters would have to choose when to utilize their antlered deer tags. Putting more thought into the process should produce a hunter that is more aware of the age of the antlered deer they are harvesting, as compared to a hunter that harvests an antlered deer because it has a “horn”. This in turn, should lead to a better quality antlered deer herd and a better quality hunting experience for hunters in New Jersey.

Additionally, I would like to see the firearm deer youth day moved to the Saturday before the statewide firearm season begins. This would hold with the tradition of all of the other current youth days, where the youth day is the Saturday before the statewide opener.

Finally, I would request that the wording restricting Sunday bowhunting be changed in the event that the pending Sunday bowhunting legislation is signed into law.

Posted: 18 Jan 2006 11:16 AM
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Too many people think that AR (antler restrictions) are the answer to our big buck prayers. I wish they were, but the simple fact is, they arent. Much can be said about the holes in AR, but lets focus on alternative methods to improve the amount of larger more mature bucks instead. Buck Tags. Lessening the amount of buck tags helps dramaticlly! The fewer bucks you can take, the more that make it to next year. The fewer buck tags you have, the more selective you become with the bucks you take. So this is a win-win situation, right? Not quite. You cant make an omelet without breaking some eggs! Take away too many tags and you have less hunters, and less people in the woods managing the doe populations. So while decreasing the amount of buck tags in NJ is beneficial, it has its repricussions. You have to make it something reasonable, like three or four instead of six. Gun Seasons. Decrease the length and bag limits of gun seasons (for bucks) and you will find the number of bucks reaching maturity goes up. Need I say any more? So what would be a good way to structure the seasons and bag limits to be fair, benefit the amount of quality bucks, and still allow the herd to be managed to a socially acceptable level? Several of you have had great ideas on how to structure the seasons and bag limits, so lets collect these thoughts and put them to good use. Anyone want to share their thoughts? __________________ "Only in dictionaries does SUCCESS come before WORK." -Alfred K. Henderson Will probably never kill a huge buck- PRO-STAFF

Posted: 18 Jan 2006 11:17 AM
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very good matty!! lets hope we see it __________________ "Look out for number one, but dont step in number two!". "Hey! that kangaroo stole my ball!!" (Rodney Dangerfield)

Posted: 18 Jan 2006 11:22 AM
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I only want answers that I agree with BHC... LOL JK I dont see how the unlimited antlerless harvest effects the quality of bucks, so lets not enter that into the equation. AR, not an option, this is for alternative methods of improving the quantity of quality bucks! Less buck tags! Now thats one I like the sound of....Sign the petition guys and gals! __________________ "Only in dictionaries does SUCCESS come before WORK." -Alfred K. Henderson Will probably never kill a huge buck- PRO-STAFF

Posted: 18 Jan 2006 11:29 AM
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I agree with fewer buck tags. 2 total for the season, take them any way you want would be good, but probably too extreme of a change. So maybe have some zones only 1 buck, and others 3, but don't make the 1 buck zones single small zones. Group a bunch together to make it more difficult for a guy to just say they took it in a different zone. As for doe, I do think you need to include doe management into buck managment. If we are shooting too many doe, or not enough, the quality of bucks from that region will suffer. I don't think you can manage one with out the other. -dan __________________ PLEASE DO NOT HUNT QUEBEC! NOTHING HAS BEEN DONE FOR THE 168 HUNTERS WHO WERE ROBBED OF THEIR MONEY AND THEIR DREAMS IN 2008

Posted: 18 Jan 2006 11:33 AM
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Uh oh....I smell another petition! __________________ ´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸ ><((((((º>

Posted: 18 Jan 2006 11:18 AM
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Matty I think it has to be a combo of a few things, I agree less buck tags, with AR, and no more unlimited antlerless tags, unless the area has way to many like Princton, Medham

Posted: 18 Jan 2006 11:26 AM
	BOWHUNTERCOP
Quote: I dont see how the unlimited antlerless harvest effects the quality of bucks that button buck that the hunter took, could of been a nice buck a few years down the road

Posted: 18 Jan 2006 11:33 AM
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LESS TAGS

Posted: 18 Jan 2006 11:41 AM
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Quote: As for doe, I do think you need to include doe management into buck managment. If we are shooting too many doe, or not enough, the quality of bucks from that region will suffer. I don't think you can manage one with out the other. I king of agree, but we dont need to discuss the UNLIMITED antlerless deer harvest with this topic. We've heard the too many does are being killed story enough. Let it rest on this one. PLEASE... However, I DO agree with the button bucks/spikes being taken as does though. Thats a great point BHC. The UBNJ has/had a poll to see if people would be willing to not count buttons/spikes for EAB/BAD. I voted in favor of NOT counting buttons/spikes for EAB/BAD, but Im not sure how the poll turned out. Thats something else we should look into! __________________ "Only in dictionaries does SUCCESS come before WORK." -Alfred K. Henderson Will probably never kill a huge buck- PRO-STAFF

Posted: 18 Jan 2006 11:56 AM Last Edited By: NJDiverDan
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I agree that the UNLIMITED does is a debate for another discussion. I also agree that BBs should not count toward EAB/BAD. And how about EAB (no BBs don't count) for shotgun season? Would this be even possible? I wonder if F&G has stats on how many hunters actually max out their buck tags right now anyway? I bet it is a really low percentage. So maybe few buck tags is on the answer. Making everyone EAB and not counting BBs towards that EAB would reduce the number of bucks killed. Also, make it so that EAB doe must be checked in before the buck can be harvested. Allow that firearm EAB to be harvested during the early ML seaons (before thanksgiving), but if not harvested then, Still EAB during 6-day. And lastly, how about EAB for every buck tag. If you want to shoot 3 bucks, you need to harvest 3 does, (BBs not counting towards EAB). ???? -d __________________ PLEASE DO NOT HUNT QUEBEC! NOTHING HAS BEEN DONE FOR THE 168 HUNTERS WHO WERE ROBBED OF THEIR MONEY AND THEIR DREAMS IN 2008

Posted: 18 Jan 2006 12:06 PM
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Matty where did you deer management plan you drew up months ago go? __________________ It isn't the catch or the kill that makes for a great outdoor experience but enjoying all that God has created for us. Email me at birdmanmike@verizon.net instead of using PM's Official Hunt and Fish NJ Pro Staffer

Posted: 18 Jan 2006 12:18 PM
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Quote: ago go? This is no time to discuss dancing girls Mike! I dont know, but I want to hear other peoples ideas on how long each season should be, how many tags, etc. Kind of like what Dan did. Maybe I should have asked more specific questions too, like: Whats the least amount of buck tags you could live with? Would you be opposed to shorter firearm seasons (for bucks)? __________________ "Only in dictionaries does SUCCESS come before WORK." -Alfred K. Henderson Will probably never kill a huge buck- PRO-STAFF

Posted: 18 Jan 2006 8:24 PM Last Edited By: JerseyJim
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Why not shorten ALL the seasons? Why just the firearm seasons? How is it any different when I take a buck with a gun in January or if you take the same buck with a bow? Still one less buck... So we shorten firearm season and now people who have a hard time getting off work due to having houses, cars, family, and countless other bills to pay for, lose chances to get out and enjoy some buck hunting with the gun.... This guy is obviously not a part of the quality buck problem but he is the one who will have to pay for it! That doesn't sound quite fair to me... If you limit the amount of buck tags you can keep all the seasons open as they are now leaving the time to get out there and enjoy hunting with which ever weapon you choose but instead of taking chances to be in the field away from the people who are limited by everyday life, instead you are making the person who kills 5 or 6 bucks a year be more selective in his/her choice of buck(s) Now that only 2 or 3 are allowed to be taken. These are the hunters that are doing the most damage to the buck numbers. Why not shoot 3 spikes when you still have 3 more shots at a wall hanger?... Hunting is about getting out there and enjoying nature in a way only hunters understand. If you start taking days away from certain seasons the guy who hunts every other day will hardly even notice but the guy who only gets out 5 - 10 times a year might lose his season all together and NJ will lose another hunter and another and another ect ect... We will lose the hunters who aren't killing 6 bucks a year and keeping the ones that do... Same problem will be here after we lose these hunters and now we will have that many less people enjoying, promoting, and fighting fo hunting!!! Less buck tags will still allow All hunters to get out there when they can and enjoy hunting but stop some hunters from getting greedy and taking 4,5,6 bucks a year! These other people who will be hurt the most by limiting days in the field are lucky to get 1 buck a year or every other year or every 5 - 10 years!...They are not the problem... Some people have the same passion for gun hunting as others have for bow hunting... Don't single out one group of hunters. Make the rules fair for ALL hunters. Limit the buck tags and not the days in the field! __________________ ............................................ DON'T TREAD ON ME http://www.nchuntandfish.com/forums/index.php

Posted: 18 Jan 2006 8:29 PM
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This was my suggestio to the F&G Council Quote: I would like to propose a reduction in the amount of antlered deer tags issued per hunter. Currently, if a hunter hunts with all possible weapons in all seasons, they would be able to harvest six (6) antlered deer in a calendar year. I would propose reducing the antlered deer tags to three (3) per year, with the option to purchase a fourth antlered deer tag. This tag would be a "Quality Buck Tag" (QBT) that could be used in any season. This tag would retail at a price set forth by the Fish & Game Council. The "Quality Buck Tag" would conform to already established DFW Quality Deer Management regulations, except that it would be applied statewide for use with the “QBT”. The reduction of antlered deer tags and the addition of the "QBT" would be done in an effort to make hunters more selective in the antlered deer they harvest. Hoping that hunters would p [no swearing please] on taking younger 1.5 to 2.5-year-old antlered deer in favor of a more mature deer, thus creating an older antlered deer base age and leading to better quality antlered deer herd in New Jersey. A Quality Deer Management program by default. An antlered deer tag could be used in any season, but no more than one per season, with the exception of the "QBT" which could be used in any season after a hunter has harvested their first antlered deer. Winter Bow: A hunter may harvest one (1) antlered deer, with the option of an additional antlered deer with the "QBT". Fall Bow: A hunter may harvest one (1) antlered deer, after EAB requirement is met in EAB Zones, with the option of an additional antlered deer with the "QBT". Permit Bow: A hunter may harvest one (1) antlered deer, after EAB requirement is met in EAB Zones, with the option of an additional antlered deer with the "QBT". 6-Day Firearm: A hunter may harvest one (1) antlered deer, with the option of taking an additional antlered deer with the "QBT". * Permit Shotgun: A hunter may harvest one (1) antlered deer, after EAB requirement is met in EAB Zones, with the option of an additional antlered deer with the "QBT". Muzzleloader: A hunter may harvest one (1) antlered deer, after EAB requirement is met in EAB Zones, with the option of an additional antlered deer with the "QBT". Hunters would be able to use their tags in any combination of seasons listed above, but would not be able to exceed the three (3) antlered deer tags per year, except if they purchase the "QBT" four a total of four (4) antlered deer per year. * The 6-Day firearm season would be reduced to one (1) antlered deer. The "QBT" could be used to take a second antlered deer in the six-day firearm season. The Youth Day Deer Hunts (Archery & Firearm) would be separate from this, and juvenile hunters utilizing a Juvenile Hunting license, would be allowed to harvest one (1) antlered deer during the Youth Hunts. This antlered deer would not count against the Youth Hunter’s three (3) antlered deer tags. Hunters would have to choose when to utilize their antlered deer tags. Putting more thought into the process should produce a hunter that is more aware of the age of the antlered deer they are harvesting, as compared to a hunter that harvests an antlered deer because it has a “horn”. This in turn, should lead to a better quality antlered deer herd and a better quality hunting experience for hunters in New Jersey. Additionally, I would like to see the firearm deer youth day moved to the Saturday before the statewide firearm season begins. This would hold with the tradition of all of the other current youth days, where the youth day is the Saturday before the statewide opener. Finally, I would request that the wording restricting Sunday bowhunting be changed in the event that the pending Sunday bowhunting legislation is signed into law. __________________ SEMPER FIDELIS (\ (\ (=' x')----<<< (,('')('') Dead Rabbit

Posted: 18 Jan 2006 8:39 PM
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Send your comments to: NJ Fish & Game Council C/O Fish and Wildlife PO Box 400 Trenton, NJ 08625-0400 __________________ SEMPER FIDELIS (\ (\ (=' x')----<<< (,('')('') Dead Rabbit

Posted: 18 Jan 2006 8:39 PM
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Quote: The UBNJ has/had a poll to see if people would be willing to not count buttons/spikes for EAB/BAD. I voted in favor of NOT counting buttons/spikes for EAB/BAD, but Im not sure how the poll turned out. Thats something else we should look into! After I place my NO vote the count is currently 51% No..49% Yes. Currently the poll has a very small polling size,(about 155 votes).

Posted: 18 Jan 2006 8:43 PM
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Nicely done Bacs...... I really like it. __________________ Quote: Hunting is My Heart & Soul, Without it. I'm just a empty shell.

Posted: 18 Jan 2006 9:08 PM
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matty i'm with you till the shorter gun season don't think it right to shorten gun if you still have 90 some days to bow hunt

Posted: 18 Jan 2006 9:24 PM Last Edited By: JerseyJim
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I still think 4 bucks is too many... 2 with the Quality buck option tag seems more then fair! 3 bucks a year is plenty and you can kill one with each weapon... I would even go for 1 with the Quality Buck tag option. 4 is still better the 6 though!!! __________________ ............................................ DON'T TREAD ON ME http://www.nchuntandfish.com/forums/index.php

Posted: 18 Jan 2006 9:49 PM
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Hey I have an idea! Lets make it a buck a day from September to February! AND we can do away with shooting does!!!! (please note the sarcasm) __________________ "Only in dictionaries does SUCCESS come before WORK." -Alfred K. Henderson Will probably never kill a huge buck- PRO-STAFF

Posted: 18 Jan 2006 9:50 PM
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i agree with less buck tags (1) per weapon ... 3-5 doe tags... i like the 3 point rule ..i think eab has to go ..to many buttons being shot just because u dont want to get screwed if that big buck comes in ....there is some work to do i emailed my comments to f and ghopefully they fix this mess

Posted: 18 Jan 2006 9:54 PM
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Quote: I dont see how the unlimited antlerless harvest effects the quality of bucks that button buck that the hunter took, could of been a nice buck a few years down the road BHC is on the money on this one. If you're going to have an unlimited antlerless season, button bucks are going to be shot, I mean they are the nosiest little things, and with the attitude that you can shoot any deer, they are going to die. I think the solution is multi faceted, but I do think that one of the problems is the shooting of button bucks. If Biologists decide an unlimited antlerless harvest is necessary, then the average hunter needs to be educated that he can tell the difference between a mature whitetail doe, and her offspring. I mean it's not that hard, the buttons are small deer, and the youngsters have a short snout, like a goat. Also, a way to get hunters to self educate themselves on it, is that if you do shoot a button buck, it counts as part of your antlered limit. Just my thoughts and opinions. Garry __________________ Garry An armed society is a polite society - Robert A. Heinlein It's not that our liberal friends are ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't. - Ronald Reagan

Posted: 18 Jan 2006 10:01 PM Last Edited By: Cat
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Do you guys really get it or not. New Jersey the state of the disgrutal hunters who know more than there own management? If the state were to lesson our bucks tags lets just say to one or two.The same guys that are killers year after year will still get bucks any way usally? The problem is the vehicals that hunt 24 x 7 how can you stop a car from hunting and is taking a lot of deer. Open more access areas and give additional tax purposes to those land owners with hourse farms and increase the doe season all year long no closed season with a 10 doe per year bag limmit. Shorthen the buck season and give one or two bucks any weapon. the state is a revenue state and they want the permit money?

Posted: 18 Jan 2006 10:06 PM
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Oh Rich, dont get your panties in a bunch. Im not deleting anything. I agree that we have too many doe days in the late season. And button bucks, and shed bucks are making up a percentage of the antlerless harvest, I think that needs to be stopped too. When I say shorten the firearms season, I mean all the extra permit days. Not six day. I like Bacs' plan quite a bit actually. I'd support that. I just get tired of hearing about the good old days! Granted, I was only a little kid, so what do I know....but I can tell you I know people who hunted back then, and they used to complain then too. Everybody is so quick to get bent out of shape around here.... __________________ "Only in dictionaries does SUCCESS come before WORK." -Alfred K. Henderson Will probably never kill a huge buck- PRO-STAFF

Posted: 18 Jan 2006 10:44 PM
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Quote: When I say shorten the firearms season, I mean all the extra permit days. Not six day. If I take a buck during fall bow and another during the 6-day is that any different then lets say I had no time off for the bow season so I killed a buck during the 6-day and a buck in Janurary? I still killed 2 antlered bucks! Why limit the days in the field when thats not the problem? It's the number of bucks being taken and not letting enough of them to grow for another year! How many hunters this year took 3,4,5 or even 6 bucks? With shorter seasons they most likely will still be out every other if not every day hunting and will still get their 4-6 bucks! How many other hunters shot 1 or none because of limited time in the woods? They still get out there and enjoy the hunt but they don't have all those days to hunt due to work and family obligations and they don't do half as much killing as some others but they still love to get out there when they can and have a shot at taking a buck! Taking away days could eliminate these hunters seasons completely! Is that what we want? The guy's taking 4-6 bucks will still be taking 4-6 bucks and these other hunters who are lucky and happy to get 1 buck will lose thier time in the woods! As far as seeing less deer I hate to say this but thats the whole point of the unlimited antlereless deer tags! NJ's deer herd is still too big! The biggest problem being the bigger herds are not in the big woods we hunt! Killing unlimited does in these woods won't solve the population problems in our yards and towns! __________________ ............................................ DON'T TREAD ON ME http://www.nchuntandfish.com/forums/index.php

Posted: 18 Jan 2006 10:49 PM
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Quote: I just get tired of hearing about the good old days! Granted, I was only a little kid, so what do I know....but I can tell you I know people who hunted back then, and they used to complain then too. In my humble opinion, the 'good old days' are right now. I'd be more inclined to think the complaints in the 'old' days were more due to short seasons. Here is the game code from 1970 for all deer seasons statewwide. While the game code today may need a little tweaking, I still think the good old days are NOW !!!! Garry [url="http://www.hunt101.com/?p=367294&c=500&z=1"][/url] __________________ Garry An armed society is a polite society - Robert A. Heinlein It's not that our liberal friends are ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't. - Ronald Reagan

Posted: 18 Jan 2006 11:30 PM
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You can't have quality and quanity. I think opening the small woodlots to archer's would help the state reach their goal of less deer per square mile. Don't reduce any seasons, as many people can only hunt Saturday's. I feel "35" and "JJ" have good points. In my opinion to have the trophies that is what AR is about you need to protect them for a while. Maybe AR should be reversed. Shoot the spike and four pointers. This would take buck tags that could of went for a legal basket racked 6pt that will become bigger. I don't feel it shoud be unlimited antlerless. They should limit the amount one hunter can harvest. But, keep the seasons as is, it makes more opportunity. I'm a member to the QDMA, but don't fully believe in all their beliefs. If you are seeing deer tracks and aren't harvesting, well then learn to be a better hunter! The deer are there, they are making rubs and scapes, you just have to learn how to hunt them. I have found many big bucks dead in the foxtail. No arrow wounds, no shotgun wounds, just old age. They pattern us, they stay in deep marshes, come out and get fat on all the bait at night and MID DAY, go back and die of old age. I do check their teeth, some are not there. The state is doing everything they can for you except shooting the deer for you. If you read any post on here about any property, the first question is "Hey, where is the hot spot or where did you see that buck at" Get out there and scout them, hunt them, stop relying on others. They could be sending you on a wild goose chase. When most people see a buck deer, they almost always retell the siting as a big buck. I have sit here and read so many posts about what would you do if or how about we petition this. Instead of worry about AR, antlerless or season length, get out and hunt, stop bitching and enjoy it. Ryan

Posted: 18 Jan 2006 11:48 PM
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I really like BACs plan, although I'd prefer to see 3 rather than 4 bucks - but I don't know how you allocate them. I'd also do away with EAB __________________ Capitalist - Pro Staffer

Posted: 19 Jan 2006 12:01 AM
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hey rich.....working late tonight? __________________ Soccer-Mom Pro-Staffer *Hunting The Wild's of New Jersey*

Posted: 19 Jan 2006 12:03 AM
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How many on here shot 5 or 6 bucks this year...any year for that matter. Probably not many. I'd even let you count BB's. My definition of Earn A Buck is going out and scouting(putting in the time). Just kidding the state does this for a reason. To take does. They must have a reason for it, not just to piss you off when a booner walks by and you don't have your doe. Let's say you are allowed one buck per weapon. Let's say during bow season, on your second day out you shoot a big 8 pt. buck, how many are going to go and hunt only does for the rest of the season. I see nothing wrong with the buck limit, what so ever. If the state is going to have AR, it should be state wide. Ryan