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| Posted: 13 Aug 2008 7:35 PM | ||
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On my original application i disclosed I was in a mental hospital as a juvenile for a few days for observation. I beleive I was 11 at the time. I thought I Was going to have a problem with FID but they said there was "nothing indicating a threat to myself or others". Now I am going for address change, could Toms River police deny my address change when I disclose mental health due to this? Im hoping not __________________ Assault is a type of behavior, not a type of hardware.
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| Posted: 13 Aug 2008 8:01 PM | ||
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In short: yes. The chief of police has the discretion to decide such issues. Each chief is different __________________ Support the N.J.O.A. and the "Littel Amendment" An amendment to the New Jersey State Constitution that Guarantees the right to hunt, trap, and fish in New JerseyNew Jersey Outdoor Alliance
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| Posted: 13 Aug 2008 9:41 PM | ||
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I know its up to their descretion but if they allowed it in berkeley also it was when i was a juvenile, i dont see toms river denying me...i hope lol __________________ Assault is a type of behavior, not a type of hardware.
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| Posted: 13 Aug 2008 9:53 PM | ||
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Technically, your juvenile record should be sealed. As far as I know you don't need to disclose anything if you were considered a juvenile. __________________ NRA Life Member
FMBA Local 42 |
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| Posted: 13 Aug 2008 10:06 PM | ||
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Technically, your juvenile record should be sealed. As far as I know you don't need to disclose anything if you were considered a juvenile.
that should be correct, ask nra rep or call lawyer __________________ "Without either the first or second amendment, we would have no liberty; the first allows us to find out what's happening, the second allows us to do something about it! The second will be taken away first, followed by the first and then the rest of our freedoms."
-- Andrew Ford |
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| Posted: 13 Aug 2008 10:13 PM | ||
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Technically, your juvenile record should be sealed. As far as I know you don't need to disclose anything if you were considered a juvenile. Not quite...your juvenile criminal record is sealed, however mental health records (as they pertain to your fitness to safely possess firearms) are fair game. |
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| Posted: 13 Aug 2008 10:53 PM | ||
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Not quite...your juvenile criminal record is sealed, however mental health records (as they pertain to your fitness to safely possess firearms) are fair game. You're asked on the application if you were a juvenile delinquent. __________________ We, The People, are all first responders.
We are also the first victims. Demand reasonable CCW laws from Trenton. |
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| Posted: 13 Aug 2008 11:31 PM | ||
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You're asked on the application if you were a juvenile delinquent. If the underlying offense for which you were charged as a "juvenile delinquent" would have constituted a crime (4th degree or higher)if commited by an adult, that will most likely disqualify you from being granted an FID. If the offense would have constituted a disorderly persons offense or a petty disorderly persons offense if commited by an adult, that shouldn't disqualify you from an FID card being issued to you. |
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| Posted: 14 Aug 2008 2:43 AM Last Edited By: Blackduck1 | ||
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If the underlying offense for which you were charged as a "juvenile delinquent" would have constituted a crime (4th degree or higher)if commited by an adult, that will most likely disqualify you from being granted an FID. If the offense would have constituted a disorderly persons offense or a petty disorderly persons offense if commited by an adult, that shouldn't disqualify you from an FID card being issued to you. I think we agree ... kinda. 
Crimes of the X^th degree that can be exponged, shouldn't disqualify you for an FID after the expongement. Disorderly Persons offenses can disqualify you from a FID. It happened to me. I was denied, had to go through the expongement process, and re-apply. I don't think its quite that simple to be adjudged a Juvenile Delinquent. I think the Juvenile Courts take the whole picture into account .... not just the type of the offense(s). Unfortunately, I have a little experience there, also. I never hurt anyone, I just did some stupid things as a teen/young man. As a matter of fact, NICS would have approved my firemarms purchases if I lived in Pennsylvania, etc. It was NJ's more stringent guidelines that caused me problems. Luckily, the US Army gave me a waiver to enter, and it changed my life forever. __________________ We, The People, are all first responders.
We are also the first victims. Demand reasonable CCW laws from Trenton. |
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| Posted: 14 Aug 2008 8:32 AM | ||
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| You have to sign a for to release your juvenile record .Which is a good thing because some juveniles are very violent and should never be in possesion of a firearm for the rest of their lives . | ||
| Posted: 14 Aug 2008 8:38 AM | ||
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You have to sign a for to release your juvenile record .Which is a good thing because some juveniles are very violent and should never be in possesion of a firearm for the rest of their lives . A few years ago a law was passed in NJ that looks at your juvenile record for NJ FPID qualification. Also, it's retroactive, so if you had a conviction on your juvenile record and you had your NJ FPID before they did this, you are supposed to surrender your FPID. __________________ "To be unarmed and therefore helpless in the face of evil is irresponsible and in fact complicit to said evil. If you knowingly and intentionally go forward incapable of stopping evil, you assist in its progress. Only a person free to choose to protect himself is truly respecting God's gift of life." Ted Nugent
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| Posted: 14 Aug 2008 8:57 AM | ||
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as i said the detective who approved my FID said "there is nothing in the mental health report putting yourself in danger or anyone else" it was just observation at a hospital for add type shit. I was approved my FID so im hoping a simple address change doesnt fuck things up __________________ Assault is a type of behavior, not a type of hardware.
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| Posted: 14 Aug 2008 11:58 AM | ||
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njgunner, Unfortunately I see cases reported all the time where an FPID holder applies for an address change at a new municipality, and is denied-and that denial is upheld by the Courts. Good luck with it __________________ Support the N.J.O.A. and the "Littel Amendment" An amendment to the New Jersey State Constitution that Guarantees the right to hunt, trap, and fish in New JerseyNew Jersey Outdoor Alliance
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| Posted: 14 Aug 2008 12:31 PM | ||
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njgunner, Unfortunately I see cases reported all the time where an FPID holder applies for an address change at a new municipality, and is denied-and that denial is upheld by the Courts. Good luck with it __________________ what are the circumstances for those situations, recent domestic violence or something on their criminal record that is new? __________________ Assault is a type of behavior, not a type of hardware.
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| Posted: 14 Aug 2008 12:45 PM | ||
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| if you are denied a fid card when you change address, you will have to petition superior court for redress. without knowing the particulars, if you currently own firearms, and have never been in "trouble," (disorderly persons, habitual drunkeness, etc.),then the judge can over rule the local chief by court order. | ||
| Posted: 14 Aug 2008 1:03 PM | ||
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Quote: Not at all. There are plenty of cases where the chief of police in the new municipality placed more emphasis ona prior matter than did the original department that issued th FIDwhat are the circumstances for those situations, recent domestic violence or something on their criminal record that is new __________________ Support the N.J.O.A. and the "Littel Amendment" An amendment to the New Jersey State Constitution that Guarantees the right to hunt, trap, and fish in New JerseyNew Jersey Outdoor Alliance
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| Posted: 14 Aug 2008 2:24 PM | ||
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Posts: 165 Spike: Join Date: Jan 2008 Send muzzyman a PM if you are denied a fid card when you change address, you will have to petition superior court for redress. without knowing the particulars, if you currently own firearms, and have never been in "trouble," (disorderly persons, habitual drunkeness, etc.),then the judge can over rule the local chief by court order. What would happen to my firearms if they denied for something that happened 15 years ago? __________________ Assault is a type of behavior, not a type of hardware.
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| Posted: 14 Aug 2008 7:56 PM | ||
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What would happen to my firearms if they denied for something that happened 15 years ago? Two issues you raise: 1-FID thats required to purchase. PD can deny change of address and that would not impact your right to possess the weapons you currently own- only your right to get a new card with new address on it. If they want to forfeit your current arms, see #2 below. You can appeal that decision in Superior Court. 2- Fitness to own currently possessed weapons. Chief/prosecutor can file petition in court for seizure and forfeiture of existing weapons and revocation of your FID. Believe it or not the changed address does not invalidate the FID. You would have an opportunity to answer, and have a hearing where evidence could be presented. Although YMMV, if you disclose the event in 1993 and it wasnt related to a safety issue or fitness to handle a weapon, the local PD will probably grant the address change. If you were committed to a mental institution for observation, its disclosable. Best bet would be to discuss it with the PD as you apply. Worst case you will need a letter from a MD stating youre currently ok to own weapon -- but that may be overkill based on what youre stating. Talk to the PD and address any concerns up front. Good luck!! |
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| Posted: 14 Aug 2008 7:59 PM | ||
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Talk to the PD and address any concerns up front. Please substitute "PD" with "good lawyer". The cops are not going to give you the right answers. __________________ "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote" - Benjamin Franklin
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| Posted: 14 Aug 2008 8:50 PM | ||
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bobsmail and chrim thanks for input...actually spoke to detective who approved my card because i have a family member at the PD where i used to live. He said he didnt see anything in the file that was bad, which is why i was granted one BUT its up to them and every pd is different...also told me not to bother unless i planned on buying new ones. Was actually thinking of seeking advice and getting a price on a consul from Evan Nappen...I dont wanna risk turning in my FID or firearms over an address change! Besides the SGT at the station didnt even know if i needed to be refingerprinted (which I dont) what a joke. __________________ Assault is a type of behavior, not a type of hardware.
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| Posted: 14 Aug 2008 11:27 PM | ||
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not to bother unless i planned on buying new ones Thats the first question. If yes you want to purchase new stuff, then you should consider an hour consultation with Evan as Chris stated above. If the commitment years ago is disclosable, then it needs to be listed on the app... with an explanation. The reality is that if disclosable, in addition to answering it appropriately on the app, a conversation with the officer handling the apps may get you a long way. Yes, believe it or not human interaction still works sometimes. YMMV-- good luck. |
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| Posted: 15 Aug 2008 10:11 AM | ||
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The cops are not going to give you the right answers. Not all LE officers are unfamiliar with the Firearms laws or are anti gun. That includes some Police Chiefs. But I will say your attitude does make some wonder why they should expedite paperwork.  __________________ "A bad day of hunting is better than a good day of work"
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| Posted: 15 Aug 2008 10:19 AM | ||
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Not all LE officers are unfamiliar with the Firearms laws or are anti gun. That includes some Police Chiefs. But I will say your attitude does make some wonder why they should expedite paperwork. I agree. There are some PD's (like your's) that do their best to get the paperwork done in a timely fashion. Unfortunately, this seems to be the minority. __________________ "To be unarmed and therefore helpless in the face of evil is irresponsible and in fact complicit to said evil. If you knowingly and intentionally go forward incapable of stopping evil, you assist in its progress. Only a person free to choose to protect himself is truly respecting God's gift of life." Ted Nugent
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| Posted: 15 Aug 2008 10:22 AM | ||
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But I will say your attitude does make some wonder why they should expedite paperwork. Im not sure why you think I have an attitude. I didnt say that in a wise ass manner at all. And I certainly didnt mean it to sound like all LEOs dont know the law. It confuses me that LEOs take offense to any comment that in any way suggests that they may be wrong about something. 
My point was that you are better off asking a question to a good lawyer than you are asking the PD where you are applying because it will likely set you off on the wrong foot. Thats all.... __________________ "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote" - Benjamin Franklin
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| Posted: 16 Aug 2008 7:26 AM Last Edited By: TJC | ||
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My point was that you are better off asking a question to a good lawyer than you are asking the PD where you are applying because it will likely set you off on the wrong foot. Thats all.... __________________ You don't even want to hear how many lawyers give bad advice or advice that the people want to hear and are wrong. That's why they lose most cases in court. 
I don't take offense when I am wrong. I take offense when someone makes a statement that includes all LE or anyone for that matter concerning anything. There is no absolute. It's like saying hunters are bandits when 1 or 2 get caught jacking deer. We don't like to hear a statement like that from antis because it doesn't include most hunters yet the statement says hunters. Your comment was: The cops are not going to give you the right answers. To me that says all cops. I don't know everything and the way things are changing all the time I certainly can't keep up all the time on Firearms Laws and F&W Laws. But I try and so do the officers that work in my dept. If we are unsure, we will make every effort to get you the right answer. __________________ "A bad day of hunting is better than a good day of work"
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| Posted: 16 Aug 2008 12:10 PM | ||
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There are jerkoff cops, jerkoff lawyers, jerkoff [fill in blank]
I wholeheartedly agree TJC - try not to over-generalize statements. In addition to being wrong, it reminds me too much of my wife when she says I "never" do anything to help, and I "always" annoy her. I do both, just not all the time.
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| Posted: 16 Aug 2008 1:43 PM | ||
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it reminds me too much of my wife when she says I "never" do anything to help, and I "always" annoy her. I do both, just not all the time.   __________________ "A bad day of hunting is better than a good day of work"
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