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| Posted: 21 Jul 2008 3:48 PM | ||
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I am currently in the market for a German Shorthaired Pointer and have some questions about the breeding of them.
1) The breeder i am looking at is going to be having a second litter from the same male/female dog combination. These dogs produced a litter approx 2.5 years ago. The original set of pups are fantastic dogs - i've seen and hunted over them before. If the second litter turns out the same way, i'll be very happy. However, i don't know if there will be any differences now that this will be the second litter from the same female/male combination. Are there any pros/cons to this 2nd litter from the same male/female combo? my breeding experience lacks here... 2) i've heard talk about there being more health issues within purebred dogs due to the lack of genepool or incestrial breedings, etc... Does anyone have experience with this, or does this pertain to GSP's? All the research i've done on this breed, i can't come up with anything bad about health issues due to being a purebred. Any help from breeders or anyone with experience here is much appreciated. thanks. |
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| Posted: 21 Jul 2008 4:02 PM | ||
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Quote: I don't see why it would make a difference that they breed 2 years ago.
1) The breeder i am looking at is going to be having a second litter from the same male/female dog combination. These dogs produced a litter approx 2.5 years ago. The original set of pups are fantastic dogs - i've seen and hunted over them before. If the second litter turns out the same way, i'll be very happy. However, i don't know if there will be any differences now that this will be the second litter from the same female/male combination. Are there any pros/cons to this 2nd litter from the same male/female combo? my breeding experience lacks here... Quote: I heard the same thing about pure breeds(not just GSP), but my 2 are pure breeds and they have been just fine. One is accident prone, but that has nothing to do with beening a pure breed. 2) i've heard talk about there being more health issues within purebred dogs due to the lack of genepool or incestrial breedings, etc... Does anyone have experience with this, or does this pertain to GSP's? All the research i've done on this breed, i can't come up with anything bad about health issues due to being a purebred. 
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| Posted: 21 Jul 2008 5:03 PM | ||
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You can easily check the pedigree papers for signs that your particular litter is coming from a diverse gene pool. You'll usually encounter problems with breeds that are in high demand and pumped-out through puppy mills and such (Dalmations are an example). Most reputable breeders strive to diversify the pedigree somewhat.
As far as getting a puppy from a previously breed pair, I have been told by a breeder that I used that this is OK as long as the bitch has not been breed more than twice before. I can't remember the exact reason, but I was warned not to buy puppies from an breeder that keeps the females pregnant over and over again. |
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| Posted: 22 Jul 2008 8:34 AM | ||
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| TTT - any other opinions/experiences? | ||
| Posted: 22 Jul 2008 12:16 PM | ||
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| loyalone, a repeat breading is always good as you said you saw and hunted over the first pups. the best breeders of gsp's should be involved with navhda and testing. not back yard breeders. google navhda and take a look. n.j. n.y. and pa. have chapters. i have two gsp's myself. my son has two also and is involved in the gsp rescue in md. bob kudile | ||
| Posted: 22 Jul 2008 12:50 PM | ||
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Quote: Thats also one way to go! My youngest dog was a rescue from Texas, and she is one hell of a hunter.
gsp rescue Bob, my parents are looking for a shorthair to rescue. Can your son email me any he may know about. They don't have to be hunters either, this one will be a house dog. |
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| Posted: 22 Jul 2008 1:04 PM Last Edited By: mcasseba | ||
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Purebreds always have more health issues than mixes. That is why pet insurance is always higher for purebreds. But to flat9999 point of checking AKC paperwork can help review the history of the male and female.
I would rather know how the first litter turned out and buy from the second litter. This is better than shooting in the dark and not knowing what you are getting from an unknown breeder or rescue. |
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| Posted: 22 Jul 2008 2:55 PM | ||
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| ringneck, go to google and search mid-atlantic german shorthaired pointer rescue. this rescue tends to deal with people in the del mar va region. they get dogs from that area and west va. n.c. the people who want a dog are veted and require a fenced yard. he now is forstering a male named copper who is waiting to be nutered. my son is in elkton,md. and the dog is pictured on line. they have placed dogs in pa. and n.j. in the past you just have to make a compleing case. your parents would have the best chance at an older dog as these are harder to place and would be easer to make a deal. bob kudile | ||
| Posted: 22 Jul 2008 4:02 PM | ||
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Loyal One:
A repeat breeding is the safest determination as to the type of dog your puppy will mature into. One hopefully would only consider a repeat breeding if the initial breeding was outstanding. If you have limited knowledge of dogs and pedigrees, the repeat breeding providing one can evaluate the initial breeding litter is the way to go. If you decide to go the breeder route trust that your breeder understands what and why he is breeding to. Do not assume that because someone is preforming a repeat breeding that you will not have any issues. Do your homework on the breeding as well as the dogs within the pedigree. __________________ |
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| Posted: 23 Jul 2008 8:21 PM | ||
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| Pure bed dogs of any breed should not have health problems if you go with a reputable breeder. In-breeding or close line breeding is where you will have problems up up. I like a pedigree that no common ancestors in 5 generations. A first time cross is always a crap shoot. Once you see the cross works, the following litters are proven. That's a good thing. A healthy well cared for bitch being bred every other cycle will have no problem having multiple litters. | ||
| Posted: 23 Jul 2008 8:58 PM | ||
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how many litters should a bitch be allowed to have ? i have heard 3. but when do you say when ? __________________ Braque Francais Coming To A Field Near You !
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| Posted: 23 Jul 2008 9:26 PM | ||
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| My brother is a vet and a breeder of labs. He says in nature a canine (fox-wolf-coyote) is designed to have litters every year for 1 year old into old age totaling up to 10 + litters. Every case is different but a healthy bitch with good exercise and top nutrition can safely have 6-7 litters as long as she skips a season in between. Most good breeders put more value on the females then they do on pups and will go by the condition of the dog when it's time to make a decision about breeding. You can't generalize and say dogs can only have x amount of litters. Every dog is different. Dogs are no different then humans. Do we tell women they can only have 3 babies?? | ||
| Posted: 24 Jul 2008 8:15 AM | ||
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i dont no thats why i was asking. is it safe for a dog to have another litter if she has had a c section last time around ? __________________ Braque Francais Coming To A Field Near You !
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| Posted: 24 Jul 2008 10:01 AM | ||
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It is very common to see some similiar ancestry within a five generational pedigree. The trick is where in that 5 generational does it appear.
Line breeding is one way to ensure that a particuliar breeding is not a crap shoot. It is the knowledge of how well the breeder truly understands what he or she is doing that is important. How high are their standards of producing, how well do they know the line, how well do they know the breed, what are their credentials, do they test and if so to what degree, do they judge,what is thier reputation, what successes have they had in the past. And the most important of all do they hunt. __________________ |
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| Posted: 24 Jul 2008 10:03 AM | ||
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| Of course it is. Many breeds such as bull dogs have c-sections all the time. Because of the big heads on the pups they never deliver naturally. A c-section is actually easier on a bitch then a natural whelp. | ||
| Posted: 24 Jul 2008 10:36 AM | ||
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cool thanks. __________________ Braque Francais Coming To A Field Near You !
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| Posted: 24 Jul 2008 3:01 PM | ||
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Quote:
It is very common to see some similiar ancestry within a five generational pedigree. The trick is where in that 5 generational does it appear. Line breeding is one way to ensure that a particuliar breeding is not a crap shoot. With all due respect nobelle, breeding GSPs is a different ball game then breeding a rare breed such as the BF with it's low numbers in North America and the small gene pool we have to work with. It is very important to keep as much diversity in the breed during it's genesis as possible. I work with the presidents of all three breed clubs from Italy, France and Canada. Our philosophy seems to be working as the BF population has never been stronger or more healthy. |
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| Posted: 24 Jul 2008 3:26 PM | ||
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 __________________ Braque Francais Coming To A Field Near You !
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| Posted: 24 Jul 2008 3:37 PM | ||
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| Oh yeah Stagg, I ran into your friend Megan, she said to say HI. | ||
| Posted: 24 Jul 2008 5:10 PM Last Edited By: stagg | ||
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  __________________ Braque Francais Coming To A Field Near You !
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| Posted: 27 Jul 2008 2:46 PM | ||
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Jersey not a problem. Each breed has to be looked at from the persepctive of what they are trying to accomplish. The original poster was looking for a shorthair hence my response was written from that perspective. My comments on training, breeding etc. are never based on what I do not know only from and through experience. __________________ |
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| Posted: 27 Jul 2008 2:57 PM Last Edited By: Jersey Sporting Dog | ||
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Quote:
My comments on training, breeding etc. are never based on what I do not know only from and through experience. A smart man. |
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| Posted: 27 Jul 2008 4:28 PM | ||
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Jersey
I am not certain of what you meant as to your reply, " a smart man". Care to expand your thoughts? __________________ |
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| Posted: 27 Jul 2008 5:57 PM | ||
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| I agree with you on that statement, that's what I mean and if more people went by that thought, these message boards would be better for it. It was a sincere reply to your post. I'm sorry if you read something negative into it, that was not my intent. Karen | ||
| Posted: 28 Jul 2008 2:46 PM | ||
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Karen thank you! __________________ |
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| Posted: 29 Jul 2008 7:34 AM | ||
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I see the term back yard breeder mentioned in many posts on the various sites that are on the net. I am curious to see what your all definitions of back yard breeders are. __________________ |
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| Posted: 29 Jul 2008 8:01 AM | ||
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| AKA Puppy Mill.....excessive breeding with diversifing properly. | ||
| Posted: 31 Jul 2008 10:06 AM | ||
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Backyard breeders is the label given to people who know little about dogs (let alone breeding!) and decide to mate their bitch with a convenient stud dog in an effort to make a quick buck. They generally use a whole number of excuses to justify the breeding, but these are often just a mask to hide their underlying motive, money. However, what they don’t realize is that a number of complications can lead to them spending more money than they ever imagined or worse, their bitch could die.
Ethical breeders, as they are generally referred to, are the complete opposite of the unethical dog breeders we just talked about. Ethical breeders can invest thousands of dollars acquiring the best possible ‘stock’, sometimes even going to the expense of travelling abroad to view that stock on numerous occasions. They will also spend a great deal of money and time in owning, showing, testing and learning as much as humanly possible about their chosen breed as well as studying all aspects of breeding and taking time off work to look after the litter when they are born. It’s not uncommon to find that the good, ethical dog breeders rarely make much money from breeding, because they generally invest all they have (and sometimes lots they don’t!) in the breeding and bettering of the breed they love. That said I know some pretty good dogs that were "back yard" one time litters, bred with the help and guidance of mentors from their breeds. "Back Yard" is a loose term, I prefer ethical and unethical to be used. |
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| Posted: 31 Jul 2008 10:42 AM | ||
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If you would like some information in regard to line breeding 'look at
www.westwindgsps.com I believe this may be of some help. Read what is a motherline. |
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| Posted: 31 Jul 2008 1:38 PM | ||
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| backyard breeders are just what the name implies. the navhda guys are the best source or starting point for pups, if you are at a loss as where to go. my first dog was from b&b in pittstown and he turned out great and 13 years old now. my secound dog, now 11, was from a navhda guy, greg fry in pa, and turned out great also. i was the one who needed training and spent time with a navhda guy for one on one training and looking back that is what made my dogs great and a joy to be with. we now own a small farm in pa. with a pond, woods, crops and fields. i put out quail for the dogs and in the spring and fall woodcock stop by for a few weeks. | ||
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