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| Posted: 26 Jun 2008 3:20 PM | ||
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I'd like to hear how everyone defines a "good" gun dog.
I often hear people saying things like, "my dog isn't ready to take hunting... maybe next year" or "a little more training and the dog will finally be ready for the field." But I don't agree with this line of thinking. I believe that if your dog is healthy and wants to go hunting, then it is ready to join you in the field. I also believe that training can only go so far and that real experience is gained in the field hunting live birds. In my opinion, a good gun dog is one that meets or exceeds the expectations of its owner. With that being said, here are a few things I expect from my dogs. A good gun dog is one that knows a few basic commands (ie. sit, heel, stay, whoa, easy) and one that loves to hunt. A good gun dog must have a decent nose and be able to find birds when they are in the area. It must also be able to mark downed birds and retrieve them. A good gun dog does not have to come from champion blood lines, but it must have hunting in its blood so that hunting comes instinctually. A good gun dog should also be well behaved around the house and good with children. __________________ Dog's on point... get ready!!!
It is very important to generate a good attitude, a good heart, as much as possible. From this, Happiness in both the short term and the long term for both yourself and others will come. - Dalai Lama http://www.njoutdooralliance.org/ |
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| Posted: 26 Jun 2008 4:48 PM | ||
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A good gun dog must have a decent nose and be able to find birds when they are in the area. Anything else is gravy for me  __________________ "from my cold dead hands"
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| Posted: 26 Jun 2008 4:50 PM | ||
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| Posted: 26 Jun 2008 5:42 PM | ||
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One that produces... __________________ "Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." (James Madison, The Federalist Papers #46 at 243-244)
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| Posted: 26 Jun 2008 6:09 PM | ||
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Desire, hard core desire and if they don't have it your working backwards.
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| Posted: 26 Jun 2008 6:46 PM Last Edited By: Jersey Sporting Dog | ||
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The value of a bird dog is in the eye of the beholder, of course, and most people think their dogs are far better than they really are. I’m certainly no exception. I guess it comes down to, what exactly are the characteristics of a "good" dog? To me, a good dog can run to the most likely bird-holding objectives and do it with speed and grace. A good dog exhibits bird finding ability, a bird sense that’s difficult to describe but easy to recognize by those fortunate enough to witness it. A good dog is steady to wing/shot/fall not only during the summer with training birds, but during showtime in the woods. A good dog has the conformity, the physique that enables it to run all day, every day in the most demanding of terrains and it has the nose that is capable of winding birds from a great distance. A good dog handles comfortably with the hunter no matter what the terrain or cover is and no matter how the hunter changes direction with no need for excessive hollering or whistling. A good dog points with the intensity of a taut bowstring and at a distance that ensures that even uncrowdable birds like grouse will not be bumped. A good dog has manners, honoring other dog’s points, stopping to flush on wild flushing birds, and retrieving to hand. A good dog will hunt dead birds for as long as required and is deadly on running cripples. A good dog will “whoa” at any distance, heel, and kennel on command. That said, all that really matters is that your dog makes you happy, that you enjoy your time spent with it at home and afield. All of my older dogs are "good" dogs. Heck, they might even show moments of greatness. The jury is still out on the two pups, 11 months old. They are right on track as far as their training goes, but until they spend a season in the woods, I won't know. We'll start the season with two weeks of hunting in MI, after that, I'll let y'all know if they are good dogs.
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| Posted: 26 Jun 2008 7:09 PM | ||
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One that finds birds.
I’m not sure the discipline some of the training methods put on a dog is good. I like a dog that is charging full speed ahead, right on the edge of being out of control. He’s hunting with me but not worried about me. He understand that it takes two of us working together if he’s going to get that bird in his mouth so he’ll hold that point until I get there, and after it’s down he’ll bring it to me because he wants to not because I’ve forced him to. A good gun dog is a methodical, tenacious hunter, full of heart, eager to please and always having a ball out there. Come on October!!!!!!!!!! __________________ "Hunters across America must wake up to the awareness that they stand a good chance of losing their sport because of their own inaction and lassitude." Fred Bear 1975
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| Posted: 26 Jun 2008 7:55 PM | ||
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To be a good gun dog they either have the drive or they don't. it can't be learned. One of my prettiest and best listening dogs couldn't hunt at all. He listened perfectly and would do whatever i wanted but when it came time for him to actually hunt and find birds on his own he was lost. This was the first dog i ever owned that hadn't come from hunting blood lines. he eventually picked up hunting and was tolerable but it took considerable more work than dogs i've had that had hunting parents. __________________ Fat Cat Sportfishing
˙˙˙ssɐ ʎɯ ssıʞ uɐɔ plɹoʍ ǝloɥʍ ǝɥʇ os 'uʍop ǝpısdn ǝɯ ʎɹnq ʎǝɥʇ ǝdoɥ ı |
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| Posted: 26 Jun 2008 9:12 PM | ||
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Not really sure how to answer from here out on whats been viewed in the opinions of others and there dogs.
I certainly know what I want to complete yet in my dog that needs to be worked out. My dog has desire and it starts as soon as I open the door when she walks out of the house at any time. She's a bird finding machine but she's not 100% steady. She will find any bird if its around and knows right where to look and then moves on. Theres several levels dogs reach before they actually reach maturity. |
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| Posted: 26 Jun 2008 9:29 PM Last Edited By: stagg | ||
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i love my dogs to death. couldnt be any happier. thats what makes a good gun dog. __________________ Braque Francais Coming To A Field Near You !
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| Posted: 26 Jun 2008 9:58 PM | ||
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1. listen well
2. stay in range 3. enthusiastic 4. hard working 5. bright 6. retrieve 7. must point 8. above average nose 9. not give up easily on a bird when she/he losses it 10. focus on hunting in a business like manner Other than these qualities I'm not picky.
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| Posted: 27 Jun 2008 5:24 AM | ||
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For me, a "good" gun dog is one that listens to basic commands (come, stay, heal) and finds birds...a "great" gun dog will hold point as long as you need him to and fetch the bird after you shoot it and will bi*ch slap you when you miss  __________________ ----------------------------------------------------
Shoot straight, kill swiftly or miss cleanly Draw, anchor, release.....scratch head...repeat! This is my band. http://www.root80.com or http://www.myspace.com/root80 |
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| Posted: 27 Jun 2008 5:33 AM | ||
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What makes a good gun dog is a good owner. Someone that is willing to put in the time afield with training and field runs etc. I think their are alot more poor owners than gun dogs. __________________ EAT SLEEP HUNT Make your dreams a reality. Take a kid hunting. Film your next hunt. www.nloutdoors.com
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| Posted: 27 Jun 2008 6:32 AM | ||
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Quote: ......and should fetch YOU a beer ...when the hunt is doneA good gun dog should also be well behaved around the house and good with children.  __________________ "Mountain lions are showing up in places they haven't been in more than 100 years."
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| Posted: 27 Jun 2008 7:05 AM | ||
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i love my dogs to death. couldnt be any happier. thats what makes a good gun dog. I'm like stagg, to most people my dogs are probably not good gun dogs, but they are to me because I love them and they make me happy.
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| Posted: 27 Jun 2008 8:24 AM | ||
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You can still have a good gun dog and it not have all the atributes of a finished dog developed yet.
I agree with one thing that the dog is as good or as bad as its trainer. The real proof I think is when the dog is finished and you can say theres nothing left this is what the dog is. All these titles and ribbons are nice and something to brag about and show. I have never desired to pursue any of those in life. I have had my dog come into the field after ribbon winners from my club went by birds and there she was on point and she had the bird others passed. I was very pleased to experiance that and it steped the ribbon winers down as well and they took notice. So what does all this mean? For me its when the dog does something I don't expect and shows me just how good she really is that I didn't realize or took for granted. Theres so many things. You know what is a good dog and no one has to tell you or guess at it. That just may be all sorts of differant things as they get discovered about our dogs . Dogs that stay outside I think have a differant relationship with their owners than the ones who stay inside and are by there sides all the time. There are times when I am so frustrated with my dog and angry I feel like I could kill her. But then other times she fully redeemed herself and I can't beleive that the other day was so bad and stressed with her. The dog looks at me and just seems to know what I'm thinking at times it seems. I guess its just taking the good with the bad each day your afield and the specific things you work towrds to get them better as they learn and interact with us. I know I have had to learn a lot about my setter on my own and it has not all been fun and am still learning. I would not trade my dog for any other dog I ever had. This dog is unique by herself. When I bought this dog I thought I was going to have this show pup right off the bat and the guys in the club looked at her and talked a lot of BS as men usally do. I told them that no worries you boys go in with your dogs and then we will come in and do what we do and show you how its done. I'll give you and your dogs 1rst chance on them. Now all there dogs were a tough act to follow anyway so that meant I talked a little to much maybe but we'd have to wait and see? The dog proved herself and thank God for that
I sent my dog back to Va. for training a couple months after I got her and she had already gotten very attached to me. When I droppd her off I couldn't even look at her when I left she cried so bad. My lady friend that was with me pleaded not to do this to my dog. The breeder said don't worry she will be alright its Abigail and she knows us. What I found out is that her was going to take Abby to Maine with thenm on their anual trip but since she wouldn't respond she couldn't go. Well I got a call 3 weeks latter you have to come get your dog she won't eat or train she has separation disorder. I go down and didn't see the dog until dark that night because the breeder and I were out duck hunting earlier in the afternoon prior to me picking up the dog. He brings my dog to me and it was like the dog din't even know who I was. Very skinny and skitish and itroverted and had an eye infection. Dogs hair was all messed up and if I didn't know the dogs marking I would have said this is not my dog. Now I'm real disapointed and fit to be tied but I was still respectfull to the breeder because I didn't want to elianate Abby from him. He said to me her father was like this and was a one man dog and that I had to train her myself and she was going to be fine that she will hunt for me. The breed also said don't expect to much of the dog for the next 5 years because they mature very slowly so I'm thinking oh great I have bragged about my dog and now what's next? Now I have a 6.5 hour ride home with Abby on my lap with a dog that is astranged from me and I took personal responcibility that I did this to my dog. I think I cried the entire way home and remember it all to well. It took me about 1 month to get her to trust me again and the season was coming on fast in Pa. Now I don't have her trained in my opinion where I wanted to be with her from the training she was supposed to have gotten. My hip it has to be replaced that I didn't know at that point thinking it was knee problem and I can barely walk and I said all these things to the guys at the gun club about my dog. Think we had some hurdels to go over in no time to do it?
Well I said F it this dog is on her own and if the breeder said she will hunt then lets go prove it to me. Off we go up to Lake Noximixon in Pa. the game lands. It was early woodcock season and I didn't even take the gun. This is the first time I seen her working. Off we go up a hill into a swall and I whistle to her and she don't come back. I hear her bell stop so I figuire she's on point. I near the rise and shes on point. Didn't know what to expect so I get closer and up goes a woodcock and could have blasted it. She looks at me and I call her over and pat her on her head and hold her. I think to my self wow what just happened is this what I am to expect not ever having a ponting dog before so I don't know much. A little while later after trying to call her back she's on point again and same senario ok now I beleive she will hunt. The desire she showed me was simply incredable and I knew with out any doubt that she was a hunter and ahard driven dog at that from the way I watched her work at 13 months. From that time on we have been growing together and although she is no where near a finished dog yet she hunts and finds birds and I shoot. She is growing up and it certainly is fun to watch and experiance just me and her. My dog has some faults that I live with and need to get help with that aren't her fault they are mine and my lack of experiance as a handler that I have to learn better about. Has she filled my expectations yes to this point she has so I feel shes a good dog. Can she be a dog that legends are made of I believe she has it but I will hold her back from that since I am not that much of a trainer. She is a natural I plainly saw that how she finds birds which that part is very good in her. She gives me beautifull points and retreives once in a while. The breeder told me one day she will just retrieve like she always did and you won't know the differance when she didn't. Last year she started toward the end of our last hunts. She had 115 birds taken over her by me alone and another 25 birds I guess with guests I had with me. I suppose she saw over 200 birds or more so she had plenty of bird experiance last season. Last year was the first season with my new hip and it made all the diffrance in the dog and I so this season we are really looking forward to it being bigger and better. I know this was a little long but wanted to share why I feel my dog is a good dog to me. Not only is she a hunter but shes a looker as well and the women always rave about her everywhere we go they stop me to talk to my dog and I. Just a very good all around animal and a real pleasure to own and be blessed with having. Thanks for listening. I can tell you this men and their dogs are a special breed all in itself and if you don't have a companion like this you can't possibly understand it or have the relationship some of us do with our animals.
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| Posted: 27 Jun 2008 8:27 AM | ||
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Quote: love my dogs to death. couldnt be any happier. thats what makes a good gun dog Quote: to most people my dogs are probably not good gun dogs, but they are to me because I love them and they make me happy Quote:
all that really matters is that your dog makes you happy, that you enjoy your time spent with it at home and afield That's exactly what I was trying to say... I just needed everyone's help to say it right  All you need is a dog that loves to hunt and that makes you happy to have a good one __________________ Dog's on point... get ready!!!
It is very important to generate a good attitude, a good heart, as much as possible. From this, Happiness in both the short term and the long term for both yourself and others will come. - Dalai Lama http://www.njoutdooralliance.org/ |
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| Posted: 27 Jun 2008 9:50 AM Last Edited By: Cat | ||
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Jon the way I see it its no differant than any type of purist
This is prevalent with flyfishers and not to pick on them persay but some have worked hard at their reputation to get that way. Dry fly fishing over the nymph and it has to do with presentation. If the dog who has a tail has a high tail or a low tail. My opionion who cares but OH MG if the dog has a 10 o'clock tail rather than a straight up? Is the dog steady to shot and you send the dog on by instruction of on the birds fail or the dog goes and gets the bird at the shot? Theres plenty of schools and thoughts on both a a sistuation to match. Every hear beauty is is in the eye of the beholder. I had plenty of homely women who wouldn't leave home but never had a homely dog so I guess I can't use that to explain now. Anyway if the dog fills your need its ok and if someone else says your dog is a pain in the ass well then wheres your dog??????? The only ones that can talk about anothers dog is if their dog is perfict and walks on water. yes sopme dogs are better behaived than others and some better at finding birds and retriving as well. I think what we all hope for is a well rounded gun dog we can have fun with and enjoy life. It sure seems to me the ones who talk the most about others dogs are the pains in the asses and who wants to be around them that talk like that anyway 
I know of one who had talked about anothers dog and I know he paid a lot for his Lewellin. I told him it was disgrace to talk like this and he should be asshamed of himself. He lost credit with me for that and eventually he lost his own credit as well when he raised his own pirate flag.
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| Posted: 27 Jun 2008 9:51 AM | ||
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| It's great that guys like stagg and thicket don't put much weight on their dogs ability and more into just the fact that they love their dogs, I get that, but in the real world a good dog has to have some special qualities, strengths, abilities to earn a title like that. When I call my Setters good dogs, and I've had some that were not good, it's not just in my eyes, but everyone that hunt with them too. Don't get me wrong, to each his own, but when someone says they have a good bird dog, they should be able to back it up with a good performance. | ||
| Posted: 27 Jun 2008 10:19 AM | ||
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Don't you think what is good performance in ones eyes is differant in anothers eyes? Its a known fact what setter people are like in the world.
A dog that is like a machine and is a finished dog can't be competed with a imature dog or the lack of the handlers experiance or the actual dogs experiance on certain birds for that matter. Its all relevant to the situation at hand. Just because a guy has a show pup and knows it don't make it correct because in most instances he paid to be there with either dollars or time. I have money and say to a trainer here finish my dog. Does that count with you and your dog together learning or was that done by some proffesional and now you have a dog to back it up and should be perfict? There are limitations with what some can spend with their dogs getting them to a point where they can back it up all the time. Not making any excusses because I have none just bringing up some additional things to discuss. Maybe if we got around some really great dogs we would be embarased with our dog and thats not what it should be about unless your an elitist. I know for me when my dog and I are together we are a team and she does fine by me and we get birds. If she gets around anyone elses dog and shows any inmaturity or misbehaivor or lack of knowleage then she will be called not a good dog then and I guess wouldn't be backed up. Theres a lot of things I'm not interested in that others take pride in. Personally I make no bones about this and never will because I'm a killer and that's what I want my dog to do is find so I can kill and then all else is a plus to me that comes down the road. Some day would I like to have a setter or two that I can write books about and have fine guns and be an elitist, well still don't see that for me. I would love to have a dog one day trained by Hughs in Pa. thats just something I would like to have before I go but thats just me.
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| Posted: 27 Jun 2008 10:42 AM Last Edited By: stagg | ||
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It's great that guys like stagg and thicket don't put much weight on their dogs ability and more into just the fact that they love their dogs, I get that lol uuuuhhhhh that hurt. get a life uplander. __________________ Braque Francais Coming To A Field Near You !
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| Posted: 27 Jun 2008 10:52 AM | ||
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when someone says they have a good bird dog, they should be able to back it up with a good performance perhaps a bad performance in the field is more a reflection on the owner/trainer than it is on the abilities of the dog?  __________________ Dog's on point... get ready!!!
It is very important to generate a good attitude, a good heart, as much as possible. From this, Happiness in both the short term and the long term for both yourself and others will come. - Dalai Lama http://www.njoutdooralliance.org/ |
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| Posted: 27 Jun 2008 5:40 PM | ||
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My dogs find birds, point birds, and retrieve birds. Sometimes they'll grab a bird that is slow.
They hunt close and always work hard. Listen well most of the time. Could they be trained wing to shot? Yea. I don't care to. I'm happy with the way they are and they are happy hunting 7 days a week with me come Nov. They are good bird dogs. __________________ "A bad day of hunting is better than a good day of work"
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| Posted: 27 Jun 2008 6:14 PM | ||
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Could they be trained wing to shot? Wow Tom I was under the impression they were? |
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| Posted: 27 Jun 2008 7:30 PM | ||
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perhaps a bad performance in the field is more a reflection on the owner/trainer than it is on the abilities of the dog? I would agree with that 100%. The worst trainers may well have the best dogs, they just aren't able to bring the good out in them. In fact thy will probably ruin them. Remember it is easier to F up a dog then it is to train it properly. So can a bad owner/trainer have a good performing dog? I would say not likely. |
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| Posted: 27 Jun 2008 7:52 PM | ||
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lol uuuuhhhhh that hurt. get a life uplander. I'm sorry you took my comment as a dig, I meant it as a comliment. If more people thought like you and all it took for them to think of their dogs as good bird dogs, was for them to love them, we wouldn't have so many sporting breeds in the rescues. |
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| Posted: 27 Jun 2008 10:16 PM | ||
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 __________________ Braque Francais Coming To A Field Near You !
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| Posted: 28 Jun 2008 8:44 AM | ||
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We need to show more respect for one another especially dog men.
Sporting breeds in rescues always thought this was such a disgrace people having these dogs and giving them up. Good for the dog but they should maybe not have had them in the first place. My ex wife got her last Golden Ret. from a rescue that the owner told them as the story went he was going to just shoot him because he couldn't hunt him anymore. What kinda fool would say and think that when his hunting companion was time to be retired. The dogs a great house dog for them and has a good home to end his years with someone to love him. |
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| Posted: 28 Jun 2008 2:44 PM | ||
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A good dog is German Shorhaired Pointer.  In my opinion when hunting a good dog will not make you lose your voice. I can't stand the guy that is hunting and yelling at his dog all day. A dog is as good as the work that you put in to it. It's important for a dog to have natural ability and determination you can't teach that, but the steady to wing and retrieve to hand depends on the owner. What makes a good owner?__________________ |
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| Posted: 28 Jun 2008 5:37 PM | ||
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HA!!! A good birddog is a VIZSLA!! cause life's to short to hunt with an ugly dog!! __________________ Hunt with a Vizsla, Cause life's to short to hunt with an ugly dog!
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