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| Posted: 15 May 2008 11:56 AM | ||
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I truly hope that I do not sense another 'cop bashing' session brewing. The only cops that will be bashed are the ones who break the laws and infringe on citizens rights. Rightfully so. __________________ "To be unarmed and therefore helpless in the face of evil is irresponsible and in fact complicit to said evil. If you knowingly and intentionally go forward incapable of stopping evil, you assist in its progress. Only a person free to choose to protect himself is truly respecting God's gift of life." Ted Nugent
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| Posted: 15 May 2008 12:22 PM | ||
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I have an appointment to get fingerprinted today and then I guess the gears should be motion.
To be clear, I'm not looking for a workaround to expedite the process. I expect the process to take some time but feel a bit put out when told (warned) by the powers that be that the process is going to take a long time. It seems as though they have been using tactics such as warnings and complexity of the process to discourage me from pursuing my FPID at every step. The oddest thing is that they try to imply that by wanting an FPID, you must be some deviant whose out to make wave in the system. You're frowned upon as though you should feel secure in the fact you have right to own a firearm therefore you really don't need one. Yeah, you have the right. Umm...what do you mean you want to exercise it? Well that's a different story. I don't blame the officers for this attitude as I'm sure that it's what was instilled in them through training and years working within the state. The last one I spoke to was actually helpful and did take the time to ensure I was on the right track. As someone stated earlier in the thread, those that were raised with firearm experience, have a different viewpoint and understand that there is nothing taboo about responsibly owning firearms. I am a law abiding citizen and have been so all of my life with the exception of an occasional traffic ticket. I have all my paperwork in order and am more than willing to go through the process to the letter of the law. Yet I still feel I'm being led to believe that the process is more trouble than it's worth. |
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| Posted: 15 May 2008 1:41 PM Last Edited By: Bowhunter22 | ||
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Travelingman - On the level (I trust from your screen name that I can speak to you from one to another), you are relatively new to the site and in so, havent seen where posts such as this have gone in the past. I am/was simply trying a preemptive strike to prevent it from taking a life of its own. __________________ F&A Mason
FTA-Member UBNJ-Member ASIS-Member, Central NJ NJOA-Central NJ Regional Manager www.sbisecurity.com |
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| Posted: 15 May 2008 1:49 PM Last Edited By: Bowhunter22 | ||
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The only cops that will be bashed are the ones who break the laws and infringe on citizens rights. Rightfully so. I have now edited this post as my first was a reaction to the above ignorant statement....and in so, not very respectful. Bloodtrails- I respectfully request that you keep your 'anti-police' attitude, viewpoint(s) and mindset to yourself. __________________ F&A Mason
FTA-Member UBNJ-Member ASIS-Member, Central NJ NJOA-Central NJ Regional Manager www.sbisecurity.com |
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| Posted: 15 May 2008 1:50 PM Last Edited By: Travelingman | ||
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It seems as though they have been using tactics such as warnings and complexity of the process to discourage me from pursuing my FPID at every step. The oddest thing is that they try to imply that by wanting an FPID, you must be some deviant whose out to make wave in the system. You're frowned upon as though you should feel secure in the fact you have right to own a firearm therefore you really don't need one. Yeah, you have the right. Umm...what do you mean you want to exercise it? Well that's a different story. I don't blame the officers for this attitude as I'm sure that it's what was instilled in them through training and years working within the state. Sorry you feel that way. Don't get discouraged it may just have been one bad apple.. |
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| Posted: 15 May 2008 1:56 PM | ||
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Sorry you feel that way. Don't get discouraged it may just have been one bad apple.. That is the exact point that I made in my very first post on this thread and even offered assistance if needed. __________________ F&A Mason
FTA-Member UBNJ-Member ASIS-Member, Central NJ NJOA-Central NJ Regional Manager www.sbisecurity.com |
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| Posted: 15 May 2008 1:56 PM | ||
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ravelingman - On the level (I trust from your screen name that I can speak to you from one to another), you are relatively new to the site and in so, havent seen where posts such as this have gone in the past. I am/was simply trying a preemptive strike to prevent it from taking a life of its own. No problem, I have no intention of defaming any organization or institution. BTW. If you want more info about my travels send a pm. |
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| Posted: 15 May 2008 2:00 PM | ||
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No problem, I have no intention of defaming any organization or institution. BTW. If you want more info about my travels send a pm. Thank you for being a gentleman. I apologize if I assumed improperly or offended anyones feelings as well. __________________ F&A Mason
FTA-Member UBNJ-Member ASIS-Member, Central NJ NJOA-Central NJ Regional Manager www.sbisecurity.com |
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| Posted: 15 May 2008 2:13 PM | ||
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I apologize if I assumed improperly or offended anyones feelings as well. You did offend anyone. I personally think that the whole situation is a vicious cycle. It starts with crime, the criminals get only a part of the sentence due to budget, over population of jails etc. Then comes the media who have field days with cases such as Sean Bell, the 911 caller who fell asleep on the call etc. So that just riles the public. Then comes the big "M" word(money) where everyone can agree taxes are going through the roof. So officer it is not you or the police it is the system but we as citizens don't have to deal with DMV and other services as much as we see the police vehicles around the neighborhood, so that is why you might get the blunt of the helplessness/anger. When I put in for my FID, I unfortunately came across one of those individuals also. But I knew the procedure and made a couple of calls and had my paperwork in hand within the 30 days. I would just like to extend my thanks for you offering to help. |
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| Posted: 15 May 2008 2:22 PM | ||
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That is the exact point that I made in my very first post on this thread and even offered assistance if needed. Thanks for the offer, I appreciate it, but I'd prefer not to call anyone out at this juncture. True that a few of the troopers were a bit "Off color" with their comments and attitude but I don't feel the need to single out anyone in particular(even though I realize that a peer can often help someone to see things a bit clearer). The problem here is systemic and not the fault of any one individual. Troopers are highly knowledgeable regarding traffic codes and such yet they are given very little training on such administrative "laws" where they need to interact with citizens in a low risk scenario. The fact that this state has way too many laws more than likely has something to do with that. 
My grandfather was a Jersey city cop who used to walk a beat everyday. He was promoted to detective and never felt right about it. He would say that he felt out of touch and "missed" the people he used to see when he walked his beat. My father has his 38 police revolver that he wants to pass on to me once my FPID/permits are issued. I just hope I won't ultimately have to take ownership through inheritance. One question for any that might know...I just had my fingerprints done at Sagem Morpho and received a form back. When I asked if I needed to return it to the SP, they didn't know. I called the SP and asked the same question and was told "I don't know but the trooper who handles these things isn't in today, he's scheduled to be tomorrow after 7:00pm. Call back then and ask for trooper ______". 
So does anyone know if the SP needs this form or is every thing just handled electronically? I think I'll just make a photocopy for myself and drop it off at the barracks tonight anyway. |
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| Posted: 15 May 2008 2:51 PM | ||
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I have now edited this post as my first was a reaction to the above ignorant statement....and in so, not very respectful. Bloodtrails- I respectfully request that you keep your 'anti-police' attitude, viewpoint(s) and mindset to yourself. I have no anti-police attitude or mindset. 99.999% of police officers are heros in my mind and deserve respect. The criminals that I speak of are the police officers who infringe upon your rights and break the law. For them I have no respect as they don't deserve it. __________________ "To be unarmed and therefore helpless in the face of evil is irresponsible and in fact complicit to said evil. If you knowingly and intentionally go forward incapable of stopping evil, you assist in its progress. Only a person free to choose to protect himself is truly respecting God's gift of life." Ted Nugent
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| Posted: 15 May 2008 4:05 PM | ||
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One question for any that might know...I just had my fingerprints done at Sagem Morpho and received a form back. When I asked if I needed to return it to the SP, they didn't know. I called the SP and asked the same question and was told "I don't know but the trooper who handles these things isn't in today, he's scheduled to be tomorrow after 7:00pm. Call back then and ask for trooper ______". The results are electronically sent back to the originating requestor. In the case, same would be NJSP. So, no need to give the SP the receipt that you received when processed. Do hold onto said receipt for future reference though. Quote:
I have no anti-police attitude or mindset. 99.999% of police officers are heros in my mind and deserve respect. The criminals that I speak of are the police officers who infringe upon your rights and break the law. For them I have no respect as they don't deserve it. Thank you for clarifying for me. Determining the inferences made on both email/posting is difficult as many times the wrong message(s) can be sent and/or received. I apologize if I missed judged. __________________ F&A Mason
FTA-Member UBNJ-Member ASIS-Member, Central NJ NJOA-Central NJ Regional Manager www.sbisecurity.com |
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| Posted: 15 May 2008 9:21 PM | ||
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The results are electronically sent back to the originating requestor. In the case, same would be NJSP. So, no need to give the SP the receipt that you received when processed. Do hold onto said receipt for future reference though. Thanks for the info. I figured that's how it worked but I dropped off the form anyway. This is the original sagem morpho form that was originally given to me by the SP. The techs filled out two fields, Application id and PCN. I figured it would be best if they had a copy as well for cross referencing any electronic documents. Redundancy can't hurt. |
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| Posted: 15 May 2008 9:26 PM | ||
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I figured that's how it worked but I dropped off the form anyway. This is the original sagem morpho form that was originally given to me by the SP. The techs filled out two fields, Application id and PCN. I figured it would be best if they had a copy as well for cross referencing any electronic documents. Redundancy can't hurt. If you need my help down the road, just let me know. __________________ F&A Mason
FTA-Member UBNJ-Member ASIS-Member, Central NJ NJOA-Central NJ Regional Manager www.sbisecurity.com |
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| Posted: 25 May 2008 12:45 AM | ||
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I can't believe this state.
I took Fri off and figured I'd go to the rifle range at C.M. WMA. The wife and I pretty much had the place to ourselves and I brought my Win. 1330 12ga(slugs), CVA .50 inline and a couple of .22 rifles to sight in and have a bit fun with. By the end of the day we'd gone through a couple of bricks of .22, my wife had embarrassed me with her superior marksmanship, and I was nursing a sore shoulder from slug recoil. Today(Sat), while running errands, I stopped by Dick's by Freehold mall to pick up a Limbsaver recoil pad for the 12ga. While I was there, I thought figured I'd pick up a few bricks of .22 LR subsonic as I am running low. The 20 yr old kid grabbed the keys for the ammo cabinet, then stopped and asked if I had my FPID with me. I told him I didn't have one yet but that I have a valid NJ hunting license(with my rifle permit) and I also have my FL, VA, and ME CCW permits. His reply was that Dick's will not sell any ammo that can be used in a handgun without an FPID. I asked if he was stating store policy or if that was the law, he said it was both. I told him that he was wrong and that he, as well as the store management should make an effort to know the laws as they are going to be losing business. His reply was to stammer through how he was only 20 and is unable to buy ammo himself and that if his manager wasn't there, he'd take a chance and sell it to me, etc... My only reply was to tell him that if I weren't so pressed for time, I'd love to have a chat with both him and his manager and that the store had assuredly lost any future business from me(I handed back my Dick's "Scorecard" when I left the store). So now there's the law to comply with as well as store policies that exist when the laws are misinterpreted. I kick myself when I think that when I bought my home four months ago, had I looked just 10 miles further west, I wouldn't have to deal with any of this B.S. I can't believe that the sportmen of this state have put up with this for so long without uprising. I guess once it's become status quo... |
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| Posted: 25 May 2008 7:53 AM | ||
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I guess once it's become status quo... Bingo. Living in NJ will mentally train you to think firearms are inherently evil. __________________ "To be unarmed and therefore helpless in the face of evil is irresponsible and in fact complicit to said evil. If you knowingly and intentionally go forward incapable of stopping evil, you assist in its progress. Only a person free to choose to protect himself is truly respecting God's gift of life." Ted Nugent
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| Posted: 25 May 2008 8:43 AM | ||
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I can say this. When I moved to PA and walked into the local gun shop.. some of the guns I was looking at made me feel like I was going to be arrested, but I knew otherwise... it was a wierd feeling.. __________________ "Without either the first or second amendment, we would have no liberty; the first allows us to find out what's happening, the second allows us to do something about it! The second will be taken away first, followed by the first and then the rest of our freedoms."
-- Andrew Ford |
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| Posted: 25 May 2008 3:07 PM | ||
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Quote: Everything in NJ is stupid, isn't it?
The 20 yr old kid grabbed the keys for the ammo cabinet, then stopped and asked if I had my FPID with me. I remember many years ago, going to Clinton WMA to take my little kids shooting. I would stop at Effingers to buy ammo, and they would have to take down all the info from my driver's license when I was buying little rimfire stuff, for the same reason. And, if I was buying rimfire cartridges with hollow point bullets, the info went into a special section in the book! Remember .... "cop killer bullets" __________________ We, The People, are all first responders.
We are also the first victims. Demand reasonable CCW laws from Trenton. |
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| Posted: 25 May 2008 3:35 PM | ||
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Dlouis
I remember when I applied for my card and some paper. At the time I lived in Bayonne, not only did they take longer then required, but they try to make you feel like your the bad guy. they give you extra forms that are not part of the state law. When I asked about the forms he then told me that the chief of pd just added these forums. I expressed to him that they can't rewrite the laws not even the chief. Well anyway this went on every time i went in for paper. I finally went in and told them I wasn't going to fill out any extra forms. Well that didn't go over well but they gave me my permits with in 30 days, they also would charge you a NICS fee, I also refused to pay it. I've since moved to Jersey City, and you think it would be harder, well it isn't. They even sit you down if your a first timer and help you through the process. And once your in the system you get your permits with in a week. I had a conversation with the officer he mentioned that there are about 30,000 legal guns in JC and I think he said only one has been involved in a crime, but I don't remember the story. From my experience if you go to them knowing the law without going ballistic they have no choice. And even then if the want to mess with you they will and the only thing you can do is hire an attorney and wish for the best.
Here are some link that may help you. The Napped site use to sell a orange book that brakes down the law in lay mens terms, it's a great book. Not sure if they still sell it. Good luck. http://www.njguns.com/laws.htm http://www.evannappen.com/ __________________ Ernrok
erj45@msn.com |
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| Posted: 26 May 2008 6:19 AM | ||
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I got my address change and pistol permit in 3 weeks. What I did was before I moved I started a thread on here listing towns I was thinking about moving to and asking if anyone had any FPID trouble there. I was steered away from one town and pointed toward the one I now reside in. __________________ Gun control is being able to hit your target
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| Posted: 26 May 2008 6:23 AM | ||
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...I just had my fingerprints done at Sagem Morpho What is Sagem Morpho?????? __________________ Gun control is being able to hit your target
MOLON LABE WWRD Member: NRA,ANJRPC,UBNJ,SFFC,DU |
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| Posted: 26 May 2008 9:10 PM | ||
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I ordered a few bricks of .22 online. Should be delivered by the end of the week. Cheaper anyway. Of course I the system won't let me buy any .25 or .32 acp online as this ammo is considered "handgun" ammo and requires either a valid hunting license or an FPID.
Had a barbecue today and spent a some time shooting .22CBs in the backyard. Yes, I have an earth backstop on several acres of land. Also, my nearest neighbor is 300 yrds away and my town doesn't have a "No firearm discharge" ordinance. Most un-Jersey like, and that's pretty much how I like it. 230 gr... Sagem morpho is a company that the state contracts out to for digital fingerprinting services. You fill out a form with your personal information as well as a case # that is given to you by the state police. Then you make an appointment to get fingerprinted at one of many locations throughout the state. Once done, I believe the company runs a check on the prints and informs the requesting agency when the results are ready. The police can then access the results online or in a report from the company. When I applied for my FPID was the first time I had heard of them too. I wonder which NJ politician's son/cousin/friend/lover owns or has an interest in it. 
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| Posted: 15 Jun 2008 11:31 PM | ||
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Today marks 1month since I was electronically fingerprinted. No word yet and no one is available at the barracks to give me any status on the application.
For reference, my FL, ME, and VA non-resident CCWs took 25, 20 and 10 days respectively. |
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| Posted: 16 Jun 2008 1:31 AM | ||
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This is the most frustrating thing as a shooter in this state you will ever deal with.. Terrible processbest of luck __________________ "from my cold dead hands"
"to all those in harms way, SEMPER FI" |
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| Posted: 27 Jun 2008 3:13 PM | ||
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I've been calling the SP barracks once a week for a status and still have not been able to speak with the trooper in charge of issuing NJFPID cards. He seems to never be there.
I just called again and was told he'd be there tonight after 7pm. Anyone care to wager whether or not I'll actually get to speak to him tonight...or ever? I'm seriously wondering if he actually exists. All I really want to find out is whether or not they have actually started the process. Neither of references have been contacted yet and one of them, a detective in a township where I used to reside, seems to think that it's probably sitting in the same spot where it was placed when I submitted it. Has anyone ever successfully submitted an application for and received a FPID from troop c in Hamilton Sq barracks? |
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| Posted: 02 Jul 2008 6:04 PM | ||
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check the state police website...I think it says
"12-14" weeks for the FID process..... |
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| Posted: 02 Jul 2008 6:42 PM | ||
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check the state police website...I think it says "12-14" weeks for the FID process..... I checked the website extensively including the FAQ, etc and I can find no such wording. Do you have a direct link? BTW, still unable to contact anyone who is in a position to know.
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| Posted: 02 Jul 2008 9:25 PM | ||
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| If I were you I would call the station or better yet go to the station on a week day between 8am and 5pm and ask to speak with either the station commander (lieutenant) or assistant station commander (sergeant first class) and explain to them about all of the problems that you have been having. If you do not live close you could call and find out if one of them are in before you go down but meeting with one of them should definetely get the ball rolling for you. | ||
| Posted: 02 Jul 2008 9:56 PM | ||
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rkeller,
I actually live less than 15 min away from the barracks. I'm reluctant to stop by again since I don't want to be considered a pest and have them become even more difficult to work with. I've called countless times, attempting to speak with a certain trooper, just wanting to confirm that everything is in order and that the process has begun. It seems I will have to escalate the methods I use in making my inquiries at some point but I don't want to make the situation worse along the way. If worse come to worse, I'll switch my residency over to property I own in PA and purchase over there but why should I have to? I had always figured that applying directly through the State Police would be easier and faster since a local township dept is not a factor and you're essentially cutting out the middleman. |
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| Posted: 02 Jul 2008 10:17 PM | ||
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3 to 6 months for everything to go through assuming I have a squeaky clean record. You dont need a "clean record"..Just cant have convictions. You can have all of the misdemeanor charges in the world, its the convictions and seriousness of THOSE convictions that deem you disqualified. __________________ When a gun-hunter sees the animal he wants- the hunts over. When a bow-hunter sees the animal he wants, the hunt is just begining !
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