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| Posted: 12 Mar 2008 10:52 PM | ||
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Though it may not mean anything in the grand scheme of things, because its ultimately up to the forum admin., I'd like to hear the members opinions on this.
How far is too far with a thread? Is there anything to gain by leaving threads like the "bear snare" thread up? In my opinion, I really dont like to censor anyone. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. In fact, at first I found the thread quite educational. While it may have been highly controversial, some people probably learned some things from it. Perhaps a few people have a better understanding of trapping, because of that thread. What do YOU think about threads like that in general? Should we let them run on, not wanting to censor or appear to be "hiding" from the antis? Or is a thread like that damaging to our outdoor sports and we should remove it as fast as possible? I think a lot of those type threads fall into a "gray area" in the middle. The info itself is already out there, so discussing it is not damaging. Its the in-fighting amongst ourselves that is damaging. Thats my opinion anyway. I'd like to hear all your thoughts on topics like this though. __________________ "Only in dictionaries does SUCCESS come before WORK." -Alfred K. Henderson
Will probably never kill a huge buck- PRO-STAFF |
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| Posted: 12 Mar 2008 11:00 PM Last Edited By: tdaly25 | ||
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Quote:
The info itself is already out there Agreed with you here Matty. I firmly believe that the number of truly neutral persons that come on this site and get turned away by threads like that is immaterial. Anyone who comes on here likely already has an agenda and I doubt it is reversed by what they see or read here. I also feel that we should self sensor for purposes of good taste, but I wouldn't for a minute sensor anything for purposes of not riling up the antis- They are already our sworn enemies and trying to appease them will never reduce the antipathy they feel towards us and our outdoor interests, nor their desire to strip us of our rights to pursue these interests. __________________ Capitalist - Pro Staffer
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| Posted: 12 Mar 2008 11:02 PM | ||
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I don't know if they should be left up or not. I do think we are a group of people with a common cause and common interests that most of the time make us Friends even though in some cases we have not even met. With that said, a little respect for each others opinions without everyone getting all pissed off or pissed on would go a long way around here. Agree or disagree with members but to beat a dead horse until someone who consistently adds valuable information to this site is ridiculous. If you have to attack then maybe it is better left untyped... I am sure I have been guilty of this in the past but after the last fiasco of valuable members of this site leaving I have been trying to make a better effort to give each of you the respect you deserve. I really hope that noone leaves the site over the trapping thread! We have already lost some good resources of info to our beloved site! __________________ "from my cold dead hands"
"to all those in harms way, SEMPER FI" |
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| Posted: 12 Mar 2008 11:11 PM | ||
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I think if the Mods and Kris enforce the rules that are in place that thread or any thread won't get out of hand.. __________________ There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and Statistics.
Earth First, We Can Hunt The Rest Of The Planets Later.  |
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| Posted: 12 Mar 2008 11:12 PM | ||
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I'd like to see more moderation in general. Not removal of the original thread, but removal and/or editing of individaul posts within threads that contain false info, use foul language or namecalling, are hijacks, or otherwise don't belong for one reason or another. __________________ Dog's on point... get ready!!!
It is very important to generate a good attitude, a good heart, as much as possible. From this, Happiness in both the short term and the long term for both yourself and others will come. - Dalai Lama http://www.njoutdooralliance.org/ |
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| Posted: 12 Mar 2008 11:16 PM | ||
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Well said gentlemen!
Buff, I hate to see valuable members of the site be driven away by disrespect too. I myself have lost my temper and disrespected people. Typically I come to my senses and apologize. Its just not right, and we need to make a conscious effort not to be disrespectful towards each other. We dont have to agree with each other on every topic, but we should respect each other all the time! __________________ "Only in dictionaries does SUCCESS come before WORK." -Alfred K. Henderson
Will probably never kill a huge buck- PRO-STAFF |
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| Posted: 12 Mar 2008 11:18 PM | ||
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Quote: We dont have to agree with each other on every topic, but we should respect each other all the time!  __________________ There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and Statistics.
Earth First, We Can Hunt The Rest Of The Planets Later. |
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| Posted: 12 Mar 2008 11:19 PM | ||
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Quote:
I'd like to see more moderation in general. Not removal of the original thread, but removal and/or editing of individaul posts within threads that contain false info, use foul language or namecalling, are hijacks, or otherwise don't belong for one reason or another. It can be a tough judgement call on what exactly is "false info". I dont claim to know everything about everything at all, so I may make a decision based on what I believe to be true, but is actually wrong. Besides, editting individual posts is such a hassle, cant you people just be good!  __________________ "Only in dictionaries does SUCCESS come before WORK." -Alfred K. Henderson
Will probably never kill a huge buck- PRO-STAFF |
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| Posted: 12 Mar 2008 11:46 PM | ||
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Quote: At that point a Mod should be able to email or PM someone and ask them to provide verification of the alleged 'false info'. If verification is made, the post should stand. If not, delete the post.It can be a tough judgement call on what exactly is "false info". __________________ "Rednecks, white socks and Blue Ribbon Beer."
"Victory in Iraq is finally in sight; he (Obama)wants to forfeit. Al Qaeda terrorists still plot to inflict catastrophic harm on America; he's worried that someone won't read them their rights." Sarah Palin |
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| Posted: 13 Mar 2008 6:07 AM | ||
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....can't you just clean it up....its been done before ....I'm sure all involved will agree ......reminds me of the wolf story again __________________ "Mountain lions are showing up in places they haven't been in more than 100 years."
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| Posted: 13 Mar 2008 6:23 AM | ||
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Quote: We dont have to agree with each other on every topic, but we should respect each other all the time! __________________ NJHUNTER ED INSTRUCTOR
NJ FEDERATION OF SPORTSMEN NJOA/NRA/MEMBER ROLLING THUNDER HARLEY SPRINGER |
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| Posted: 13 Mar 2008 6:44 AM | ||
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My opinion, for what its worth..
The mods should enforce the rules that are already in place. This thread was deleted once, then re-opened...why? It was obvious that the quarrels were going to continue. As far as members leaving the site...I've got one foot out the door. As far as being educational...Yep..It sure opened my eyes. From now on...As I stand on the front lines defending our rights as outdoorsman. I will not only feel like one of the last 300 remaining Spartans. But I will do so while realizeing those opposing me are holding Mathews,Hoyts, Remingtons,and Brownings. __________________ <- <- <- <- ~ <- <- <- <-
I'd rather be working.........a Bird! 
Pro Staffer |
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| Posted: 13 Mar 2008 6:55 AM | ||
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The debate is healthy. I learned alot. With good moderation many of us can learn to argue respectfully and constructively. Matty, you are actually a fine role model of that skill. This is good stuff and these controversial threads should continue. Our growth, as hunters and as men, will come with some pain and discomfort. We should endure that for the good that it brings. __________________ Helping deer go up the food chain since 1979.
REFORMED....PRO-SNAKER |
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| Posted: 13 Mar 2008 6:55 AM Last Edited By: sam3 | ||
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Quote:
My opinion, for what its worth.. The mods should enforce the rules that are already in place. This thread was deleted once, then re-opened...why? It was obvious that the quarrels were going to continue. As far as members leaving the site...I've got one foot out the door. I asked for the thread to be re-opened. Aside from the later part of the thread that became attacks amongst other members, it provided some good information to people like myself that do not know alot about trapping. However, speaking for myself, I am not online 24/7 and cannot delete threads that are pure attacks when I am not here. I deleted the posts as per a pm request I received when I got online this morning. Everyone should know that they are responsible for their actions and when things get heated up, take it off the site. You are doing yourself and the site a favor. __________________ |
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| Posted: 13 Mar 2008 7:16 AM | ||
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The debate is healthy. Totally agree. If anything, it demonstrates that most here have the same ethical opinions. I recall seeing posts entitled "Opening Day Carnage" or "Six Day Slaughter". To me, these inflammatory words are more harmful than a discussion of a bear caught in a trap. (Mind you-I'm not saying they should be censored-just a little more sensibly titled) __________________ NJOA
TU "I want as game protectors men of courage, resolution and hardihood who can handle the rifle, axe and paddle; who can camp out in summer or winter; who can go on snowshoes, if necessary; who can go through the woods by day or by night without regard to trails." -Teddy Roosevelt |
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| Posted: 13 Mar 2008 7:21 AM | ||
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Some of you guys were probably too young to remember when we lost trapping in this state. But this kind of interaction within our ranks is what caused it. If we stand together on all fronts we will win most, if not all the battles. Our enemies want to divide and conquer us. Lets not let it happen again. __________________ Wildlife Taxidermy By Richard G. Santomauro
1732 Hgy # 71 Wall NJ 07719 Phone 732-449-5950 Web pages http://www.rgswildlifetaxidermy.com http://www.VELVET-ANTLERS.COM E-Mail rgswildlife@yahoo.com Life member - NRA & NJFSC: Standard Member UBNJ, NTA, GSTA, New Jersey Outdoor Alliance. |
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| Posted: 13 Mar 2008 7:24 AM | ||
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As far as members leaving the site...I've got one foot out the door. As far as being educational...Yep..It sure opened my eyes. GG.. Why would you leave the site? I believe I posted in the thread that the controversy breeds conversation, and that conversation has potential to educate. I myself knew nothing about trapping, nor would I take an interest in attending any meetings on the trappers behalf. After the debate, reading some information and watching some of the videos posted, I would walk a trap line to check it out. It may not be my cup of tea but I understand why some enjoy it. So just from that one thread you've at least opened my eyes to that aspect of the sport. Do I think controversial threads should be deleted....NO! Because they educate! Guys like to kill each other with "facts" and "opinions" so they research more on the subject they're arguing about. I think we are competetive by nature, so if one guy will research a subject just to 1 up his foe than so be it. Either way that person is educating himself a lil more |
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| Posted: 13 Mar 2008 7:31 AM | ||
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i personally can't stand all the fighting. its one thing to disagree with someone but putting them down for there opinions on things isnt right.name calling is just not necasary. anymore if i see a thead and there is fighting going on i walk away from the thread and move onto another. personally it sucks because there could be some really good info in that thread. i for one learned alot from this site and met alot of great people, and i hope to meet more. i think being a mod is a hard job and alot harder then most people think. where do you draw the line? __________________ If Guns kill people Then...
-pencils mis spel words, -cars make people drive drunk, -spoons made Rosi Odonell fat. steve 
hetley75@optonline.net http://myspace.com/hetley75 http://www.camospace.com/hetley75 http://www.killerskitchen.com |
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| Posted: 13 Mar 2008 7:47 AM | ||
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| I have to cringe at the state of our culture. I prefer to revert to the popular beliefs of the great hunting capital of the world-Singapore- where the motto is Nothing is safe from us; Kill it, Cook it, Eat it. No time for bleeding hearts and tears sorry. I would hope that those spending the greatest amount of time in the outdoors and shared so much on this site would continue to stay here and educate the masses that don't but are quick to condemn. | ||
| Posted: 13 Mar 2008 7:50 AM | ||
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I hate to see valuable members of the site be driven away by disrespect too. Yo Katie shut the barn door dear before many more get out? How many left already for far less? |
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| Posted: 13 Mar 2008 7:52 AM | ||
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temper and disrespected people Oh really but we still Love you 
Everyone has a bad day and it takes a good fight to even things out some times as long as you don't kill the person?
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| Posted: 13 Mar 2008 8:00 AM | ||
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Some of you guys were probably too young to remember when we lost trapping in this state I looked at some of my traps the other day and thought where was my head at then? Was I that much of a barbarian as the flash backs appeared and thats why states go to more humain methouds of trapping. I remeber many a foot and the fruit of my labor soured and then had to become a better trapper and set drowning sets and switch traps. Time and place for everything in the world. Which is worse with what we do in the wilds or cheat on your wife with prostitutes. The same JO's that dispute killing animals vote for the scum in politics. The strong survive and the weak get eaten by the Lions. I didn't say meek now thats a differant thing? |
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| Posted: 13 Mar 2008 8:10 AM | ||
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MATTY,
I think every person should list there email address on My Preferences. And if you really disagree with a post you could send an email and tell Em about this way there would be no need for a neg. post (just my thought) __________________ NJHUNTER ED INSTRUCTOR
NJ FEDERATION OF SPORTSMEN NJOA/NRA/MEMBER ROLLING THUNDER HARLEY SPRINGER |
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| Posted: 13 Mar 2008 8:25 AM | ||
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| I think the mods do a great job, And I also agree with a lil controversy it helps open eyes and educates..Buas an outdoorsman I think bashing any legal means of taking game is a personal attack on me. I don't aggree with all forms of hunting or fishing but I do not bash people for the way they do something if it is a legal method. I personally think that when a thread gets to personal attacks that is when a mod needs to step in or some one should point out to a mod when personal attacks are taking place.I was enjoying the thread and trying to educate a lil on trapping till certain people started bashing trapping and trappers that was a personal attack on me(my opinion) | ||
| Posted: 13 Mar 2008 8:26 AM | ||
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MATTY, I think every person should list there email address on My Preferences. And if you really disagree with a post you could send an email and tell Em about this way there would be no need for a neg. post (just my thought) I dont know. Seems like a good solution to me, but we already get complaints about people emailing each other like that. As far as moderating the posts that break the rules, not only is it a tough judgement call in some cases, it is extremely time consuming. To give you a better understanding of what I mean. I may log on here, planning to be on for a few free minutes. I see a heated discussion, so I begin to sift through it. I find good educational posts, but they also contain a snotty remark or some name-calling. Editting it takes me a minute or so. By the time I get done editting to sift through the rest, the other person has already read the remark and posted a response with more name-calling. Its a lot to handle and if the thread is active, it can spread like a wildfire. So my two minutes of free time are up and I want to log off, but now I've only editted one persons comments and more comments and future comments are put in place. Now it appears as selective enforcement, but its really just time constraints and "real time" arguing that takes a lot of effort to read through and clean up. I brought this up to the other moderators and offered two solutions. Delete every post, informative or not, if it breaks any rule. (That sucks sometimes, but maybe people would think about that snotty comment they are about to add to their otherwise well thought out response) Lock threads down, edit the title to include "closed for moderation" so we dont have to worry about new comments and more work popping up as we go. Once cleaned, the thread would be re-opened and a clear warning would be placed in bold in both the first post and last post... I'd prefer the second choice, but it would require cooperation on everyones part... We dont need to re-open the thread to find 12 new threads: "Why was it locked?", "Mods are unfair", etc... Which would the members rather see? __________________ "Only in dictionaries does SUCCESS come before WORK." -Alfred K. Henderson
Will probably never kill a huge buck- PRO-STAFF |
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| Posted: 13 Mar 2008 8:43 AM | ||
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Quote:
Lock threads down, edit the title to include "closed for moderation" so we dont have to worry about new comments and more work popping up as we go. Once cleaned, the thread would be re-opened and a clear warning would be placed in bold in both the first post and last post... I'd prefer the second choice, but it would require cooperation on everyones part... We dont need to re-open the thread to find 12 new threads: "Why was it locked?", "Mods are unfair", etc... Which would the members rather see? Matty, I like this way. Lock it down remove the problem but then add a post from the moderator why it was locked. |
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| Posted: 13 Mar 2008 8:47 AM | ||
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All.. I found the post to be EXTREMELY educational and was happy to hear everyones view. The only person who knows if the photos were true or doctored is the guy who posted them in the paper. AlexBC or AlexCB. Whatever he calls himself.
I too don't like to see any of us calling eachother names over a heated debate. My intention of this thread was not to end up of having people leave the site either. In a perfect world everyone would agree with everyone and life would be boring. I'm glad the post stayed around for a while beacuse I learned a lot from many people in that post. I also learned that some people see things one way and there is no changing thier minds .. Which is ok too. For everyone that can see both sides of the fence, I think there is much to be gained out of a post like that. For those who are a little more close minded, Not so much..
The post was getting to the point of beating a dead horse and I'm glad that post is done with. I'm looking forward to meeting some of you personally one day and will continue to enjoy this site. Thanks to everyone who is involved in making this site a GREAT place to visit on a daily basis. Rob __________________ 09 Crackerized Bowtech Captain
28.5"/60lbs 325 fps 
Fuse Stabilizer/Quiver Sword Apex 3rd Plane Micro Sight Carbon Tech Panthers w/ Rage 2 Blades http://www.camospace.com/robbates |
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| Posted: 13 Mar 2008 8:49 AM | ||
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Stiks I think your correct as well as a good suggestion from Bill
Theres no real need for things to get out of control or is there any need to call names because that's childish and sisified
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| Posted: 13 Mar 2008 8:51 AM | ||
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it is extremely time consuming. There ya go is the reason as I knew it. |
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| Posted: 13 Mar 2008 8:55 AM | ||
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well if this thread or that thread has any fighting, the Mod's/Admin should deal with the poster... If He/she is braking a rule ( Example: ragging on another member...) by the rules should be banned. as far as the thread with the bear getting snared.... Leave it, both anti's & hunters should see this stuff...
We shouldn't fight with other hunters, trappers or fishingperson... We have enuff on our plates.... This is a thread that can help out anyone trapping... maybe the snare wasn't set-up in a good location, It couldv'e been fixed to not snare anything bigger then the game it was set-up for. We can be walking on egg shells, When we can use our brain and show others a better way to do things... Now just because someone doesn't hunt the way You do...doesn't mean You have to drill Your way in to them.... Just open there eyes to another way.... Remember what's great for You...could be very bad for someone else... When firearms hunters & Bow hunters act as Hunters can we be one unit... There shouldn't be walls to keep firearms hunters from another group, like crossbow hunters or compound bow hunters or even Traditional Archers.... We are Hunters... We need to stick together... NO MATTER WHAT.... if You don't like it... Keep your mouth shout..No need to start fights. We are a group of NON.... Well till we can learn how to be hunters not fighters. __________________ Quote: Hunting is My Heart & Soul, Without it. I'm just a empty shell. |
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