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| Posted: 22 Mar 2006 11:47 AM | ||
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BHC,
Amazing the difference a year can make!! 
-dan __________________ PLEASE DO NOT HUNT QUEBEC! NOTHING HAS BEEN DONE FOR THE 168 HUNTERS WHO WERE ROBBED OF THEIR MONEY AND THEIR DREAMS IN 2008
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| Posted: 22 Mar 2006 11:54 AM | ||
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Quote: Now if he couls only call 6-Day season by it's right name and stop calling it shotgun season, since shotgun season in Zone 4 is for 1Day....Amazing the difference a year can make  Glad I hunt in Zone 10 where you have Fall bow, Permit bow, Winter Bow, Shotgun permit, muzzleloader permit & 6-Day season.....__________________ Quote: Hunting is My Heart & Soul, Without it. I'm just a empty shell. |
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| Posted: 22 Mar 2006 11:57 AM | ||
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I stand firm, shoot these spikes. Bad genes, point blank. Let's let them breed with the few does we have left. Now that we have a better buck to doe ratio, these inferior bucks will hit the does.
I am a member to QDMA, but still think you should cull spikes. Four pointers to small 8pts., I will let go, but not spikes. If you have ever breed any animal for superior genes you would have a difference of opinion on this. You can't make chicken soup with chicken sh!t. Ryan |
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| Posted: 22 Mar 2006 11:59 AM | ||
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To me a button buck is worth more then a spike.
Ryan |
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| Posted: 22 Mar 2006 11:59 AM | ||
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I always allow spikes to walk. When I was young my dad would get pissed at me if I shot a button buck or a spike, so now I never shoot them. I try not to shoot small bucks either, this season I passed on several small 4's,6's,and 8's. you have good values, but i wont p [no swearing please] up a chance on state land to take a small buck if it presents itself. if i dont, someone else will. at least i'll have some meat in the freezer then. Franco.......  __________________ "Look out for number one, but dont step in number two!". "Hey! that kangaroo stole my ball!!" (Rodney Dangerfield)
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| Posted: 22 Mar 2006 12:03 PM | ||
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| in my first year, yes. but in my second year, it depends on the situation. | ||
| Posted: 22 Mar 2006 12:35 PM | ||
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Quote: or become someone else table fare.if you let him walk, theres only one thing a small buck can do, and thats GROW BIGGER __________________ "I spend most of my time fishing and bow hunting, the rest I waste"
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| Posted: 22 Mar 2006 12:45 PM | ||
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I will not shoot a buck unless he looks worth the money to get a mount. The only time I will shoot a lesser buck is if he seems injured or something.
This has been my policy for about 15 years. __________________ Gun control is being able to hit your target
MOLON LABE WWRD Member: NRA,ANJRPC,UBNJ,SFFC,DU |
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| Posted: 22 Mar 2006 12:49 PM | ||
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If I'm not mistaken, doesn't a " big " buck ( antler and body ) p [no swearing please] through a " spike " stage in his life.
If you shoot him in his "spike" stage, he'll never get any bigger. Yea, I know some deer will NEVER get any bigger, and I've shot a few that had bad antlers ( stumpy spikes ) that would never have gotten any bigger. But to shoot a heathy young deer with spikes, may cost you next year's Trophy. __________________ President-UXBNJ
http://www.uxbnj.com/ --} ---> In the end, it's the "HUNTER" that gets the deer not the BOW ! The bowman, to be successful as a hunter, must learn to perfection the habits of his game. NO MATTER WHAT TYPE OF BOW HE USES ! |
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| Posted: 27 Dec 2006 6:38 PM | ||
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| Not true, some spikes have become P & Y bucks. Studies have shown that a late drop buck fawn may be a spike in his first year and be a slammer buck by his 3rd year. Let em go so they can grow. Most guys can't do it. Even if we went to a 1 buck per season bag limit guys will still shoot a spike or a 4 point not to waist their buck stub! Some guys I know have gone 3-4 years without shooting a buck, cause if they ain't gonna mount it, it ain't worth shooting! Meat hunters? Does taste better!!!! Beside an Alpha doe is tougher to kill than a slammer buck! | ||
| Posted: 03 Feb 2007 10:43 PM | ||
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| i think if you want meat shoot a doe. otherwise wait for a hanger, but everyone is different so as long as there is no law against shooting small bucks do as you please. | ||
| Posted: 18 Oct 2007 7:28 AM | ||
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I know this topic is a little older but i am going to post something on it anyway...Three years ago my club Woodruff Rod and Gun Club were DRIVING deer in jackson. The last drive of the day on monday morning we killed a five pointer that was no bigger then a 3 inch spike. We took it to the check in station the biologist looks at its teeth. The lady goes wow this deer is 6yrs old. 6yrs old on a wma in jackson. Probably the most over hunted wma in the state. So my philosophy is once a spike always a spike. Well i am wrong because...That same day first drive off the morning i harvested a really wide 4 pointer that probably would of turned into a nice buck in a couple of years. Anyway i took him to the check in station and the biologist said a year in a half old deer. I really dont think that food has to play that much of a role. Does food play a role yes it does where there are footplots and even deer with bad genes grow enormous racks. I really think that it has to do with genes and once a spike always a spike might be true but it might not... __________________ FIRE IT UP!!!!!
Did you get em? Did you hear the gun go off!!!! Yea!!! Then get a ###### knife!!! |
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| Posted: 18 Oct 2007 7:56 AM Last Edited By: Matty | ||
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Once a spike, always a spike is ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE! You have no way of knowing what that deer will become if its young. Studies show that they have just as much potential as any other young buck.
If its an older deer, thats a different story. You have to be a good judge of age by the body characteristics, not antler growth. That spike could turn out to be the trophy of everyones dreams. Remember, a whitetails skeleton is not full grown until around 4.5-5.5 years old. So most of their nutrition in the first 4 years of life is going to the growth of their body not their rack. They havent even come close to their full potential yet. Often times I think people simply use it as an excuse to harvest little bucks. Of course genes play a major part in antler growth as well, but the does genes play just as big a part. I've discussed this at length with the owner of a deer farm/deer breeder and for a truly magnificent buck the breeder buck and the doe both need good genes. Nutrition plays a huge part in it as well as age. Without the three key factors (genetics,age,nutrition), you will have nice bucks, but never the monarchs that adorn magazine covers. If you honestly want to cull bucks to help manage a property, learn to judge a deers age by the body and facial characteristics. Also, try to take deer with racks that dont have g2's or browtines. These are traits that will most likely be passed on. If you're going to take a management deer though, make sure you're aiming at an older deer with poor genetics and not your future wall-hanger. Good luck---Matt __________________ "Only in dictionaries does SUCCESS come before WORK." -Alfred K. Henderson
"Nature's law of tooth and claw are far crueler than any death I could ever bestow" -Fred Bear Will probably never kill a huge buck- PRO-STAFF |
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| Posted: 18 Oct 2007 8:05 AM | ||
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Quote:
Once a spike, always a spike is ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE! I agree. I have seen spikes that turn into nice bucks on several occasions. A great example of this is the 8pt I shot this season....The pictures tell it all. 2005 as a Spike 
2006 as a 7pt 
2007 as an 8pt 
I shot that buck this season. And I am 100% sure he would have been nicer next year. And probably a monster in 2 years. But I couldnt pass him up this year. __________________ "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote" - Benjamin Franklin
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| Posted: 18 Oct 2007 8:10 AM | ||
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Perfect example Chris and congrats again for letting him go so he could grow into a trophy you were proud to take! __________________ "Only in dictionaries does SUCCESS come before WORK." -Alfred K. Henderson
"Nature's law of tooth and claw are far crueler than any death I could ever bestow" -Fred Bear Will probably never kill a huge buck- PRO-STAFF |
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| Posted: 18 Oct 2007 8:15 AM | ||
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Notice how he was a nice spike? His spikes had some length and shape to them.
From what I have noticed, those are the spikes that will grow into nice deer. The deer with tiny strait spikes still have a chance to catch up (and certainly still get the pass from me) but in general they will not be as nice as "nice spikes". __________________ "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote" - Benjamin Franklin
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| Posted: 18 Oct 2007 8:19 AM Last Edited By: red65 | ||
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This is from the outfitter that I use in Texas...
10-2-07 - Now that our census work is mostly completed, it appears that we need to remove a goodly number of does - and spikes. During this extraordinarily good year, there should be zero spikes, but sure enough, a few of the rascals we seen by the biologists in the helicopters. So we have created a specific hunt for spikes and does. Three days, three deer, lodging, meals, and our full array of services all for only $1250. If you have an interest, shoot us an e-mail and we can attach our flyer which more fully describes the offer. You can upgrade the hunt to include a management buck (our choice) for an additional $500 - no kill, no pay. http://www.adobelodgephotos.com/latestnews.html __________________ There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and Statistics.
Earth First, We Can Hunt The Rest Of The Planets Later.  |
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| Posted: 18 Oct 2007 8:23 AM | ||
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This is from the outfitter that I use in Texas... You hunt there Red? I would love to do a Texas trip one day. __________________ |
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| Posted: 18 Oct 2007 8:25 AM | ||
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Quote: Been there 2 times, last time was in 93...You hunt there Red? __________________ There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and Statistics.
Earth First, We Can Hunt The Rest Of The Planets Later. |
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| Posted: 18 Oct 2007 8:26 AM | ||
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| If it is early season since I hunt on public land I give them a free pass. But as of right now I will shoot it . That would be one less for the gun season .But if you hunt on private land let go!!! | ||
| Posted: 18 Oct 2007 8:33 AM Last Edited By: ChrisM | ||
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During this extraordinarily good year, there should be zero spikes, but sure enough, a few of the rascals we seen by the biologists in the helicopters. I think High Fence is a whole different ball game. The logic that ranch is using is different from what we would use in free range NJ hunting. That ranch has a set amount of deer they want to keep on the ranch. And given the optimum conditions they can "create" together with good weather-they figure the deer with 6 or 8pt "first racks" will be better deer. And they are right, but given the time, some of those spikes COULD catch up. But it takes time. And the longer a deer lives on a ranch, the longer the rancher has to wait to make money off that deer. Take a deer with a nice little basket 8pt rack as his first. He could become a 140class buck by 2.5. He is then marketable (a money maker) earlier in his life. The spike might take until 4.5 to become a 140 class buck. That is 4.5 years of eating the ranchers corn and food plots while making him no money. That rancher would rather raise 2 bucks that start off with 8pt racks in that 4.5 year time period. So the rancher figures that instead of having these spikes take up room on his ranch (room that could be better used by 8pt starters).....he will have a hunt for them. And someone will pay him $1,250 to shoot a spike and two does in three days 
By the way....I can think of so many better hunts you can do for $1,250. __________________ "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote" - Benjamin Franklin
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| Posted: 18 Oct 2007 8:35 AM | ||
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Quote: No Fence there.........I think High Fence is a while different ball game. __________________ There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and Statistics.
Earth First, We Can Hunt The Rest Of The Planets Later. |
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| Posted: 18 Oct 2007 8:35 AM | ||
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And someone will pay him $1,250 to shoot a spike and two does in three days By the way....I can think of so many better hunts you can do for $1,250.  I can do that here in NJ for $32.50! __________________ "Only in dictionaries does SUCCESS come before WORK." -Alfred K. Henderson
"Nature's law of tooth and claw are far crueler than any death I could ever bestow" -Fred Bear Will probably never kill a huge buck- PRO-STAFF |
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| Posted: 18 Oct 2007 8:39 AM | ||
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it depends shotgun season an old spike bad genetics ill take it out bow and permit unless its last day ill let it walk __________________ hoyt katera xl z3 cam 1/2
easton st epic arrows rage 2 blade broadheads there is nothing better than being in the woods or on water with family and friends |
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| Posted: 18 Oct 2007 8:40 AM | ||
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Quote: I don't go to texas to shoot spikes, that hunt must have been added this year... Just another way for them to make $$$$...
I can think of so many better hunts you can do for $1,250. The reg hunts cost $3,750...  __________________ There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and Statistics.
Earth First, We Can Hunt The Rest Of The Planets Later. |
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| Posted: 18 Oct 2007 8:40 AM Last Edited By: hunter4life | ||
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Quote: its till the end of jan w/ permit in 48 to me thats a seasonand stop calling it shotgun season, since shotgun season in Zone 4 is for 1Day __________________ hoyt katera xl z3 cam 1/2
easton st epic arrows rage 2 blade broadheads there is nothing better than being in the woods or on water with family and friends |
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| Posted: 18 Oct 2007 11:38 AM | ||
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I don't know what its gonna take for people to understand that "once a spike always a spike", is the biggest bunch of BS ever. Yea there are some bad genetic deer out there for sure. We killed a small 9pt that was 3.5 and you would have swore he was 1.5, body size and all!
There's nothing more to say.... Whoever still believes that a spike will always stay a spike is just way behind on times..... __________________ Finally out of NJ! In Nodak now waitin to do some huntin!
96 Impala SS-12.74@103 out of fuel again 
06 TrailBlazer SS-12.58@106 Tim |
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| Posted: 18 Oct 2007 11:49 AM | ||
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I agree with ChrisM. It depends on the length and shape of the spikes. If it's a young deer with some length and shape that looks like it will grow into a good rack in a few years let him walk. If he's a little older deer with straight horns take him out. If you want meat take a doe. Last Sat. I took my first deer with a bow and he was a little guy and I'm proud of him. Yesterday I had an oppretunity to take another little one and I let him walk. Just my opinion.
Dave __________________ Bear Instict
65lbs. Whisker Biscuit rest 100gr. Muzzy broadheads 3 blade UBNJ member |
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| Posted: 18 Oct 2007 11:59 AM | ||
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no spikes for me. 2 1/2 year old 8 points or better is where i am at currently on my standards. i'm sure they will go up with time and experience, but a 2 1/2 year old 8 point is a trophy to me.
and i shoot a bunch of does to keep the freezer full. __________________ |
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| Posted: 18 Oct 2007 12:45 PM | ||
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In the main area where I hunt I pass on all bucks unless I'm going to put it on my wall. Some places I hunt I kill everything I see but always prefer marture does over dinker bucks. When my kids are with me they can take anything legal they want. __________________ "To be unarmed and therefore helpless in the face of evil is irresponsible and in fact complicit to said evil. If you knowingly and intentionally go forward incapable of stopping evil, you assist in its progress. Only a person free to choose to protect himself is truly respecting God's gift of life." Ted Nugent
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