Finally - No More Antler Point Restrictions!!

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Fortunately, a youth (under 18) can harvest a buck with an antler 3" or more on one side in PA.

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I view the point restrictions as a good thing!
It gives the bucks a chance to mature. and if it's just meat that the hunter is after...There are plenty of Does around.

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If you want more older bucks then limit the total buck take

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the hunter is the on-the-ground manager that determines the outcome of any harvest management goal. "

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The other problem with APR's in NJ is that since they are not state wide, a hunetr can take an undersized buck in an APR zone, and simply check it as a deer from another non-APR zone. APR will only work if it is state wide.

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High-grading refers to selecting the "best" individuals in a group. The term is often used in forestry where it means cutting the best trees and leaving the poorer quality ones. With regard to antler restrictions, it often refers to shooting the bucks with the "best" antlers in a given age class.

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Hunters must learn to identify young bucks based on body characteristics and not rely on antler-based criteria....that the hunter is the on-the-ground manager that determines the outcome of any harvest management goal. "

Posted: 16 Jul 2007 8:14 PM
	Registered User	Posts: 2627 Monster Buck: Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote: Fortunately, a youth (under 18) can harvest a buck with an antler 3" or more on one side in PA. This would be a great idea for any area with APRs.

Posted: 17 Jul 2007 10:53 AM
	Registered User Currently Offline	Posts: 2152 Non Typical: Join Date: Feb 2007
The other problem with APR's in NJ is that since they are not state wide, a hunetr can take an undersized buck in an APR zone, and simply check it as a deer from another non-APR zone. APR will only work if it is state wide. As for kill em and leave em, While that may happen during archery season with few hunters in the woods, during gun season, there are way to many people arround to hear the shot, and come running to find out what was shot! Too often on public land, I've had a crowd of looky loos while dressing an animal. I hunted zone 6 since the early 80's. I've taken a ton of deer out of allamuchy over the years, and never saw an animal over a basket 8 until 2 years ago. 2 years ago I saw alot of basket 8's, quite a few main frame 6's and 8's, and several 9's and 10's. I scored my largest 8 pointer on public land in allamuchy 2 years ago. A giant 10 in the 160's was taken just off 206 last year by the cell tower during regular shotgun. I hunted that deer hard during bow, but never got closer that 80 yards from him. APR was working in zone 6. I just fear that this year will be a slaughter, as the land is now loaded with younger bucks that I'm sure will be prime targets this year as they are no longer protected. While a lot of the land in zone 6 did not support large antler growth, a lot of land did. __________________ Support the N.J.O.A. and the "Littel Amendment" An amendment to the New Jersey State Constitution that Guarantees the right to hunt, trap, and fish in New JerseyNew Jersey Outdoor Alliance

Posted: 18 Jul 2007 1:10 PM
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Quote: I view the point restrictions as a good thing! It gives the bucks a chance to mature. and if it's just meat that the hunter is after...There are plenty of Does around. Couldnt agree more with this statement. I hunt zone 9 and although I complained at first I have come to embrace the antler restrictions.

Posted: 18 Jul 2007 1:36 PM Last Edited By: JerseyJim
	Warden, Sponsor	Posts: 10559 Addicted to NJH: Join Date: Feb 2005
Like I said before, in my opinion antler restrictions is the wrong route to try and grow bigger bucks. Some bucks are never going to grow legal racks and their genes will be spreading all through the herd. Older bucks on the decline will lose points along the way and now these deer will be off limits as well... it seems to me that proper management needs rejects taken out of the heard as well as the big trophies... If you want more older bucks then limit the total buck take giving more bucks a chance at making it until next year. 1 anything buck and 1 four points to a side buck. Now you get the best of both worlds. This doesn't leave out the average hunter who is happy to take any buck with bone on it's head but it does limit how many scrubs he/she can take. Now some of the scrubs are removed helping the gene pool and with the 2 buck (the 2nd one a "quality buck") limit way more bucks get to reach another season..... I would really like to see NJ limit the number of bucks to 2 bucks per hunting year per hunter no matter what weapon is used. Just my .02 __________________ ............................................ DON'T TREAD ON ME http://www.nchuntandfish.com/forums/index.php

Posted: 18 Jul 2007 2:22 PM
	Registered User	Posts: 2627 Monster Buck: Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote: If you want more older bucks then limit the total buck take This has proven to be the best method.

Posted: 18 Jul 2007 5:52 PM
	Registered User, Sponsor Currently Offline	Posts: 5533 Addicted to NJH: Join Date: Oct 2006
Quote: the hunter is the on-the-ground manager that determines the outcome of any harvest management goal. " __________________ "from my cold dead hands" "to all those in harms way, SEMPER FI"

Posted: 18 Jul 2007 6:45 PM
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Quote: The other problem with APR's in NJ is that since they are not state wide, a hunetr can take an undersized buck in an APR zone, and simply check it as a deer from another non-APR zone. APR will only work if it is state wide. Agree with this 100%! __________________ "Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." - John Quincy Adams

Posted: 18 Jul 2007 7:28 PM
	Registered User Currently Offline	Posts: 576 Typical: Join Date: Dec 2005
I see alot of you like the idea of apr's but probably don't realize how by adopting them, you alienate a group of hunters. Just because someone is not after a wall hanger, by no means, should they be told they are only allowed to harvest does. First of all, deer in this state, as in all others, are a renewable natural resource owned by the state. In a round about way that's all of us. We pay for the permit to harvest them. Second, limiting buck tags would do more for buck survival rates than any apr would. Third. If you are going to go the route with APR's, then make it for everyone, kids included. If deer management is going to be dictated by the bigger is better crowd there would have to be changes. a. license increases to cover the losses of nontrophy hunters. I still know quite a few people who enjoy tagging deer with the family, regardless of a bucks size. In most instances, it's been a family tradition for decades. Changing the game now would almost certainly push them to not hunting NJ anymore. b. since we needed a license increase, we'll definitely need a permit increase as well(this is nj after all) c. to be fair to those of us not willing to purchase the higher priced buck tags, doe tags will be made available at little cost or free, since we are doing the public a service by doing the actual management of herd numbers. Shooting bucks does nothing to deplete the numbers as it is the does who regenerate the numbers. Finally, NJ will never rank up there with Illinois, Iowa, or any of the other huge buck states. Being the most densely populated, highest taxed, and over regulated state does not go hand in hand with huge bucks. While the genetics and food are here, what won't be is sufficient undeveloped habitat suitable to sustain any large numbers of deer, let alone good numbers of huge deer. In case you haven't heard, the whole corridor of the northeast is supposed to look like Los Angeles in terms of congestion by something like 2025. That pretty much means everything developable will be built up from Boston down to DC. Be happy with what you have now, depleting our numbers will only make things worse, and they look grim already. I'm glad you like to spend all season to shoot 1 deer. I don't have the time for that and quite frankly, it doesn't mean that much to me to shoot a monster, but please don't tell me to shoot does. That would be like me pulling you out of church or temple and forcing you to go to the mosque. __________________ To kill a big buck, you're going to have to shoot a big buck

Posted: 18 Jul 2007 9:08 PM
	Registered User, Sponsor Currently Offline	Posts: 3110 Monster Buck: Join Date: Feb 2005
JC, I got an answer from Kip Adams at QDMA regarding how the term high-grading is used relevant to antler restrictions. Seems it may be used more to describe taking the best bucks of an age class (as I used it). Here is his quote... Quote: High-grading refers to selecting the "best" individuals in a group. The term is often used in forestry where it means cutting the best trees and leaving the poorer quality ones. With regard to antler restrictions, it often refers to shooting the bucks with the "best" antlers in a given age class. either way, you're right when you say Quote: Hunters must learn to identify young bucks based on body characteristics and not rely on antler-based criteria....that the hunter is the on-the-ground manager that determines the outcome of any harvest management goal. "