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| Posted: 05 Jun 2007 5:40 AM Last Edited By: apmaurosr | ||
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GhillieScout1
Below is just one link to the widely reported 52 fatal bear attacks. There's nothing that says they were new age hunters in the link, nor is there anything in the book The New Age Hunter that alludes to black bear fatalities. But I'm sure the comment was meant as a personal slight and not as a basis for supporting your position. You're chronicling your foolishness. Your slight is more a reflection of you than me, perhaps a transparent attempt to hide the widening holes in your argument. That's a wonderful quote by Henry Beston. I'm not sure that he was noted for being an outdoorsmen as much as he was a noted for his gift of writing. The issue isn't the value of wildlife (if you've taken the time to read any of my posts you'll see that wildlife is valued) the issue is how it is up to people to ensure that we manage what wildlife cannot - a peaceable and respectful coexistance, this becomes more important as the living space between man and animal shortens. Although people may be wiser for their mistakes there is no guarantee they won't repeat them. There is no noted wildlife expert that I've read that has ever maintained that wildlife is 100% predictable - I've not even heard this position spewed from the mouth of the most ardent anti in a fit of one of their rantings. The integrity of this argument was exhausted a few posts ago. Feel free to continue to present your side of issue, I'm finding it fascinating. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_ ... Ant |
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| Posted: 05 Jun 2007 6:27 AM | ||
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I personally examined a track in the snow about 4 years ago, Me too... in maine two years ago. A really fresh track I could have sworn was a cougar. I tracked it almost to canada and spotted it from a ridge it had just crossed... the biggest damn bobcat you'll ever see. Be wary of what you think are mountain lion tracks... we have bobcats in the northwest portion of the state and their paws are disproportionately large for thier body size. __________________ Life Member NRA, NAHC, NAFC
Member NJWF, NWTF, NRHRC, NJFSC Recording Sec. SORG |
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| Posted: 05 Jun 2007 6:51 AM | ||
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Take a closer look at the attacks.Mostely Defenseless children and elderly folk.Mostley Aggressive camp bears, made that way by stupid weekend whantabee naturalists. These people are so removed from their surroundings, hell I'll bet more than half played dead! Black bears are timid creatures. http://www.bear.org/Black/Articles/How_Dangerous_are_Black_Bears.html Most were victims of circumstance, wrong place at the wrong time. My apologies bout the wisecrack, but I still stand firm that animal behavior is very, very predictable!! __________________ "Mountain lions are showing up in places they haven't been in more than 100 years."
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| Posted: 05 Jun 2007 6:59 AM | ||
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 Been there , hunted Jackman 4 yrs. Would love to live there!There were no tufts, and its bound was 7-9 ft.Yes we have Bobcats in Warren County!!__________________ "Mountain lions are showing up in places they haven't been in more than 100 years."
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| Posted: 05 Jun 2007 8:20 AM Last Edited By: aftermath | ||
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As for 870, check out http://www.cronaca.com/archives/000024.html ,its a chronology of mountain lion sightings in NJ. Ghillie here's a chronology of bigfoot sightings in NJ... Bigfoot in NJ?... just because you read it, doesn't make it real. Quote:
Maybe I know to much!! Whatever... __________________ Life Member NRA, NAHC, NAFC
Member NJWF, NWTF, NRHRC, NJFSC Recording Sec. SORG |
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| Posted: 06 Jun 2007 6:42 AM | ||
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In 1984 , apair of mountain lions were released in Worthington State forest by those liars at fish and game. Maybe i know to much!!! __________________ "Mountain lions are showing up in places they haven't been in more than 100 years."
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| Posted: 06 Jun 2007 9:25 AM Last Edited By: GhillieScout1 | ||
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have had 5 operations from a bear attack in sitka alaska. i am happy to say that you would not know it today, and i have no disability in the least. because of my interest in this, i have found out that there are far more bear attacks then anyone is lead to believe. as far as the goverment is concerned, they don´t want the public to feel any need to arm themselves, as they plan complete disarement of the people. for the most part bears will leave you alone. but there is a great increase in bear attacks. there is a simple answer to this that the fish, and wildlife will never tell you. it is simple. they are so protected now days, that they are loosing there fear of man. it can not be any more simple. this is the simple fact. bears are protected to a great part even after attack. my attack was completely unprovoked. i have no hatred for bears. but you are a complete fool if you go into brown bear country without a gun. i will tell you who the experts are. these are the trappers, and prospectors still living in the wilderness of alaska. they would tell you to yor face, that you are a fool to travel in the wilderness without a gun. thank you.
Posted by: david whipps at August 28, 2006 http://www.lesjones.com/posts/000166.shtml __________________ "Mountain lions are showing up in places they haven't been in more than 100 years."
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| Posted: 06 Jun 2007 9:37 AM Last Edited By: GhillieScout1 | ||
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dopLg4SqzpA Could of predicted that bears behavior!!! __________________ "Mountain lions are showing up in places they haven't been in more than 100 years."
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| Posted: 06 Jun 2007 10:23 AM | ||
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Ghillie - you've sited the BEAR Group as one of your sources.
I'm looking for reliable information - not car-key jangling urban folk-lore. Thanks - for sharing. __________________ "...but to protest against all hunting of game is a sign of softness of head, not soundness of heart."
TR A1202 is Bad! Shame on you Anthony Chiappone! |
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| Posted: 06 Jun 2007 11:11 AM | ||
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Please be more specific? __________________ "Mountain lions are showing up in places they haven't been in more than 100 years."
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| Posted: 06 Jun 2007 11:45 AM | ||
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In 1984 , apair of mountain lions were released in Worthington State forest by those liars at fish and game. Maybe i know to much!!! Proof? And don't post up a link to another forum with claims of people only willing to give their first name and town. I actually can't believe I'm responding to this, there is only so long you can beat a dead horse... but to restate my point, just because you read it on the internet or heard it from a cop or something like that, doesn't make it real. I'm not ruling out mountain lions in New Jersey, but with the amount of people using our "remote" sections of the state for recreation, I find it difficult that no pictures have surfaced. __________________ Life Member NRA, NAHC, NAFC
Member NJWF, NWTF, NRHRC, NJFSC Recording Sec. SORG |
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| Posted: 06 Jun 2007 12:08 PM | ||
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Please be more specific? Why do you site the bear group as a reliable source of information? __________________ "...but to protest against all hunting of game is a sign of softness of head, not soundness of heart."
TR A1202 is Bad! Shame on you Anthony Chiappone! |
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| Posted: 06 Jun 2007 12:23 PM | ||
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A feral pig was hit by a train in Readington a couple of months back. Ask the DEP, they investigated it. Never saw one of those in Jersey either?? ( even on a trailcam) Get my point!! These pigs are no secret, their presence is well documented. |
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| Posted: 06 Jun 2007 12:24 PM | ||
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Take a closer look at the attacks.Mostely Defenseless children and elderly folk.Mostley Aggressive camp bears, made that way by stupid weekend whantabee naturalists. These people are so removed from their surroundings, hell I'll bet more than half played dead! Black bears are timid creatures. http://www.bear.org/Black/Articles/How_Dangerous_are_Black_Bears.html Most were victims of circumstance, wrong place at the wrong time. My apologies bout the wisecrack, but I still stand firm that animal behavior is very, very predictable!! Tim Treadwell used to say the same things. Here is a closer look: Predictible behavior? From 2005: Jacqueline Perry, 30, female Killed in a predatory attack at the Missinaibi Lake Provincial Park, north of Chapleau, Ontario, Canada. Her husband was seriously injured trying to protect her. Ministry staff shot and killed the bear at approximately 8:00 a.m. Saturday, September 10, 2005, near the area where the fatal attack occurred in a remote area of the park. April 2003 Forestry worker : Stalked, killed and partially consumed by a large, black bear near Waswanipi, a village in northern Quebec. Recently - National Geographic has been running a series on Predator and Prey - the focus is on the "unpredictible" predatory behavior of black bears and other carnivores. The conclusion by the experts in the program: when black bears are forced into competition with one another (dominant boar vs younger boars) over territory (roughly 20 mile area), the behavior of the younger males towards human interaction is "unpredictible" but ultimately dangerous. __________________ "...but to protest against all hunting of game is a sign of softness of head, not soundness of heart."
TR A1202 is Bad! Shame on you Anthony Chiappone! |
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| Posted: 06 Jun 2007 12:30 PM | ||
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These pigs are no secret, their presence is well documented. Yes - and you cannot hunt them since they are considered "once domesticated". __________________ "...but to protest against all hunting of game is a sign of softness of head, not soundness of heart."
TR A1202 is Bad! Shame on you Anthony Chiappone! |
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| Posted: 06 Jun 2007 1:16 PM | ||
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My original intent here was that coyote prescence is far more dangerous than black bears.That most bear attacks are avoidable, and that stupid people get attacked. that we as outdoorsmen instinctively know what to do in confrontation by predicting what that animal is going to do. I myself would like to see survivor interviews, accounts, to see how many of these people were ignorant! Some are unprovoked attacks, I agree. Stupid people don't belong in the woods! Stupid People need to be educated of the things that could attack them in their backyard. Stupid people need to be educated on what to do in these situations and how to avoid them.. Stupid people need to be more aware of their surrounding (not only in the woods.)These stupid people are so far removed from mother nature,and the hunter instinct in themselves, that was breed out of them 100's of years ago.Some of us still have it!!I have no desire to kill a black bear, nor do I fear their encroachment.We unlike those people can live right along side these beautiful creatures.The Cronaca sight is just something I check from time to time to see posts on possible cat sightings.And the feral pig was a first for me! __________________ "Mountain lions are showing up in places they haven't been in more than 100 years."
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| Posted: 06 Jun 2007 1:36 PM | ||
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Stupid people don't belong in the woods What about the kid that was attacked in the backyard... do kids belong in the backyard?  Maybe playing in the street is safer? ???
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We unlike those people can live right along side these beautiful creatures True... but I should be able to hunt NJ bears if the bear population will support a hunt. I've been dreaming of cooking up a batch of smoked bear  for some time now.
Just because you think bears are beautiful doesn't make them any different than any other animal (deer, turkey, coyote, skunk, pheasant, elk, tuna, etc) and it should not afford them any special treatment. I think that herring is a beautifull fish... but I also think that people should be able to fish for them and eat them without hearing some misinformed anti-hunter propeganda BS. __________________ Dog's on point... get ready!!!
It is very important to generate a good attitude, a good heart, as much as possible. From this, Happiness in both the short term and the long term for both yourself and others will come. - Dalai Lama http://www.njoutdooralliance.org/ |
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| Posted: 06 Jun 2007 1:38 PM | ||
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I have no desire to kill a black bear, nor do I fear their encroachment.We unlike those people can live right along side these beautiful creatures Like I said: Tim treadwell thought he knew better. Even the most experience bear experts regard the Black Bear as highly unpredictible. As for them encroaching us? We are encroaching them. Less hunting land yields to more developement. Without proper management via hunting, the black bears in NJ will overpopulate beyond a region's carrying capacity. Dominant boars will force the "encroachement issue" with the younger males. What happens next is... unpredictible. __________________ "...but to protest against all hunting of game is a sign of softness of head, not soundness of heart."
TR A1202 is Bad! Shame on you Anthony Chiappone! |
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| Posted: 06 Jun 2007 1:42 PM | ||
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Now those folks down there are a little more aware of their surroundings,alittle more educated on what not to do! Get it! Yes we need a hunt, but I'm not interested. __________________ "Mountain lions are showing up in places they haven't been in more than 100 years."
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| Posted: 06 Jun 2007 2:00 PM | ||
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Now those folks down there are a little more aware of their surroundings,alittle more educated on what not to do. Get it! I got it - in fact the whole state got it. $800,000 worth of bear education... Sure - education will prevent a bear or yote from looking for food in suburbia...
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Yes we need a hunt, but I'm not interested. we sure do. __________________ "...but to protest against all hunting of game is a sign of softness of head, not soundness of heart."
TR A1202 is Bad! Shame on you Anthony Chiappone! |
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| Posted: 06 Jun 2007 2:07 PM | ||
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Education , awareness,and instinct will keep them from becoming their next meal! __________________ "Mountain lions are showing up in places they haven't been in more than 100 years."
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| Posted: 06 Jun 2007 2:17 PM | ||
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Education , awareness,and instinct will keep them from becoming their next meal! Didn't work for the educated, aware, and very experienced forrestry worker in Canada... Actually - reducing the black bear population by 10% and introducing a spring season would help establish a conditioned response. The education methods in the sites you posted do no more than to help the bears lose their fear of people. __________________ "...but to protest against all hunting of game is a sign of softness of head, not soundness of heart."
TR A1202 is Bad! Shame on you Anthony Chiappone! |
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| Posted: 06 Jun 2007 2:30 PM | ||
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animals_attacking_humans#Mammals This is interesting.Seems bears only attack in self defense.Deer and skunks too. __________________ "Mountain lions are showing up in places they haven't been in more than 100 years."
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| Posted: 06 Jun 2007 2:44 PM Last Edited By: GhillieScout1 | ||
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http://www.killsometime.com/Video/video.asp?ID=479 This is funny, and I'm ?no anti.Killed more deer with a stick than you could imagine. Send me an interview? __________________ "Mountain lions are showing up in places they haven't been in more than 100 years."
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| Posted: 06 Jun 2007 6:22 PM | ||
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Male geologist June 14, 1992 Black Attacked and killed on field assignment near Cochrane, Ontario.
Ant, we had just arrived at the Polar Bear hunting lodge in Cochrane, Ontario when this incident took place it was in Kennedy district. The Geologist parter witness the attack and ran back to the truck to retrieve a shovel. By the time he made it to his friend the Bear had killed him and partially consumed the body. While in the process of fighting the Bear with the shovel he was alos mauled but not killed. On the same trip out of the same camp. One of the hunters was attacked on his tree stand. All he had as a weapon was his bow and arrow. The Bear left claw marks on both of his boots. We saw the boots. His instincts was to aim the bow at the bear an release an arrow which went into the bears neck and into the chest of the bear killing the animal. On that particular year they had a bad mast crop of Beechnuts in the area. When the bears came out of hibernation they were coming into Cochrane and eating everything in sight. Dogs, Cats all types of animals were fair game to the bears. We encounter one bear walking the road into Cockcrane and we try to push him off the road with the Suburban. The bear actually charge the truck. I hung out of the rear window and smacked him in the head with the machete. I hit him square in the head with the bade on its side. I did not want to kill the animal or wound him. We were later told by the Mounty's to shoot the bear the next time. We did not have a weapon with us at the time. That whole town was under siege by the bears. __________________ "Dont complain about your problems. There is always someone worst off then you."
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| Posted: 07 Jun 2007 5:40 AM Last Edited By: apmaurosr | ||
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Thanks for posting that story El Jefe.
There are so many things that can influence behavior that I think many of us take "expert advice" at face value. Even human behavior can be considered "predictable" - but when we are filled with anger, fear, anxiousness, pain, etc... we might react much differently than what might be predicted -in spite of our ability to "rationalize" our instinctive urges. I don't think it's any different for animals. Sure under "normal circumstances" an animal's behavior is somewhat predictable, but we don't know what type of stress the animal might be under, or how the animal "perceives" the situation it finds itself, or if the animal's environment is changing and therefore changes its "predictable" reponse (i.e. habituation...) Again. Thanks for the eye-opener. |
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| Posted: 07 Jun 2007 5:56 AM Last Edited By: apmaurosr | ||
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To all newjerseyhunter.com members.
I've had a request to edit this thread to keep the integrity of what the post is meant to be - an area where wildlife attacks can be posted. I've started to do this but I'll need a bit more time. There are some good points posted, and as most of you know I also enjoy the chance to read a good debate, so I'll continue to cull the thread and make sure I don't destroy the informative comments. I think most of you understand my intent for this thread - but for the newcomers... ... this thread is not an attempt to promote a backlash against animals or stoke fears of animal attacks, it's an attempt to "sober" the rhetoric of the antis, the uninformed, those with political agendas, etc. - all of which appear to be supported by the media outlets that most of us turn to for information. This thread is meant to be educational, and debates (which allow different sides of the issue to be heard) can be educational when it expands our understanding of an issue. Anyway, I'll continue to clean up the thread and thanks to all for taking an interest in this topics posted here - and for your contributions. Ant |
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| Posted: 07 Jun 2007 6:24 AM Last Edited By: aftermath | ||
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I've had a request to edit this thread to keep the integrity of what the post is meant to be - an area where wildlife attacks can be posted. I've started to do this but I'll need a bit more time. There are some good points posted, and as most of you know I also enjoy the chance to read a good debate, so I'll continue to cull the thread and make sure I don't destroy the informative comments. Well said Ant... I'm as guilty of getting off track as anyone else so I'll try to keep it on topic from now on.  __________________ Life Member NRA, NAHC, NAFC
Member NJWF, NWTF, NRHRC, NJFSC Recording Sec. SORG |
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| Posted: 07 Jun 2007 5:16 PM | ||
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Ant I have the actual pictures of the Bear after I hit him on the head. On that same trip my friend was attacked by "tree hugers" is the Canadian version of Anti's, as he was returning to camp. We were also threaned with our lives if we did not leave the area. We were so far back in the bush that we spend the whole day in the trailer on four hour watch with all weapons loaded. Finally the guide show up to tell use that they were coming to arrest us. We were being charged by the tree hugers and company of shooting the reefer trailers were they had the little pine trees stored till they could plant them. The next morning one of the tree hugers was also attacked by a black bear, but it was scared off by the rest of the people who started to scream at the bear. Make the story short Indian council came to our defense and they actually closed the whole area down. The outfitter gave us a free hunt the next year, and the Company and tree hugers that were planting the pines dropped all the charges. __________________ "Dont complain about your problems. There is always someone worst off then you."
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| Posted: 08 Jun 2007 5:11 AM Last Edited By: apmaurosr | ||
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When I was in Alaska a few weeks ago my guide told me that the black bear (in Alaska) was more of a threat to people - more likely to attack people - than the grizzly bear. I hought that thus was an interesting observation (perhaps just his opinion.)
If true though it most likely means that the "environment" can change the black bears disposition (since genetically it is the same bear as those in NJ.) Ant |
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